Inside the newsroom: Media relations advice from a former CNN producer

 In this episode, former CNN producer Tiffany Anthony joins host Jason Mudd to discuss media relations best practices, newsroom operations, and journalist preferences. 

Tune in to learn more!

Watch the episode here:

Meet our guest:

Our guest is Tiffany Anthony, a communications and storytelling professional and former CNN cross-platform producer at Warner Bros. Discovery. With more than 18 years of experience in broadcast, digital, and social media, Tiffany has helped shape high-impact stories and audience engagement strategies while working inside local and national newsrooms. 

5 things you’ll learn during the full episode:

1. Why strong media relationships still matter, even when newsworthiness comes first
2. Common media pitching mistakes that damage credibility with journalists
3. How to effectively follow up with reporters without becoming a nuisance
4. Why understanding newsroom operations improves media relations success
5. How changing newsroom dynamics and audience behaviors are reshaping media relations

Listen to the episode here:

Quotables

• “Relationships matter a lot when it comes to newsrooms as well as with PR. Basically, you don't want to be a stranger.” — @Tiffany Anthony
• “You need to consume news yourself. You need to know what's going on.” — @Tiffany Anthony
• “It is not always about the fastest anymore. It's about the most accurate, the most in-depth, the most personal.” — @Tiffany Anthony
• “You have to grab the reporter's attention, just like we have to grab the viewer’s attention. And you have to do it quickly because people will lose interest; reporters will lose interest.” — @Tiffany Anthony
• “Every touchpoint should add value to the relationship. Every touchpoint should be another piece of insight.” — @Jason Mudd

If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to share it with a colleague or friend. You may also support us through Buy Me a Coffee or by leaving us a quick podcast review.

Resources

Guest’s contact info and resources:

• Tiffany Anthony on LinkedIn
• Tiffany Anthony on Muck Rack
• Tiffany Anthony’s website
• From newsroom to PR: How journalists can successfully make the switch

Additional Resources:

• What strong media relations actually look like
• The best and worst media relations efforts from public relations professionals
• The 4 R’s of media relations: Responsive, resourceful, rapid, and respect
• Listen to more episodes of the On Top of PR with Jason Mudd podcast.
• Find out more about Axia Public Relations.

If you like this episode, you're going to love this:

• Advanced AI media relations strategies for public relations
• How to improve your media pitches with Jason Mudd of Axia Public Relations
• Media relations best practices with Axia

 Recorded: June, 2026 

About your host Jason Mudd

Jason Mudd is a nationally recognized public relations expert featured by CNN, Entrepreneur, Forbes, NPR, The New York Times, PRWeek, and The Wall Street Journal.

Named North America’s top PR leader by the World Communication Forum, he serves as Partner of Axia Public Relations — recognized by Forbes as one of America’s Best PR Agencies.

Jason has advised some of the country’s most admired and fastest-growing companies, leading campaigns for iconic brands including American Airlines, Budweiser, Dave & Buster’s, GE, H&R Block, Hilton, HP, Miller Lite, New York Life, Pizza Hut, Southern Comfort, and Verizon.

He’s also a professional public speaker, accredited PR practitioner, published author, entrepreneur, and host of On Top of PR with Jason Mudd — a podcast ranked among the top 2.5% globally by Listen Notes and a top 100 marketing podcast on Apple Podcasts. His guests have included leaders from Disney, Microsoft, Southwest Airlines, and Wells Fargo. Learn more about Jason at https://www.axiapr.com/team/jason-mudd and jasonmudd.com. 

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Transcript

Episode Transcript

[00:00:00] – [00:00:27]

Tiffany

Doing like two line email sometimes is not gonna get the attention anymore. you need to think of how you're presenting your company, how you're presenting yourself. what makes it flashy? Like you have to grab the reporter's attention just like we have to grab the viewers' attention. And you have to do it quickly because people will lose interest, reporters will lose interest.

[00:00:27] – [00:01:26]

Jason

Hello, welcome to On Top of PR. I'm your host, Jason Mudd with Axia Public Relations. And today we're joined again by Tiffany Anthony. Tiffany is a former CNN producer, she is a communications and storytelling professional with eighteen plus years of experience crafting clear, high-impact narratives across broadcast, digital, and social platforms. She and I have been working together for, I can't believe I'm saying this, but about 20 years. And both of us have grown significantly in our career over that time. And she joined us a few weeks ago where we talked together about the role of transitioning from journalist into the profession of public relations. Today we're really focused on media relations best practices and her point of view from being a producer in her career in journalism and receiving bad pitches, receiving good pitches, building great media relationships and seeing where herself or her colleagues were willing to have relationships with PR people and when PR people were willing to have relationships. I'm really excited about having Tiffany back on the show. And she's joining an elite class of about a handful of people who have ever been on the show twice. So with that, we'll welcome back Tiffany to On Top of PR.

[00:01:34] – [00:01:37]

Tiffany

Hi, thank you for having me back and ready to talk.

[00:01:37] – [00:02:55]

Jason

Yeah, exactly. I'm excited to do this with you. One thing a lot of PR people talk about is this idea that relationships are really important in media relations, but they're not as important as oftentimes having a good news story to pitch. So the expressions I like to use are I could be the best man in the wedding of the New York Times editor, but that doesn't mean they're going to cover everything I send their way unless it's a good fit for their outlet. In addition to that, journalists have an obligation to report on what's interesting to their audience. And so they have a covenant between themselves and their audience that they're going to cover topics that are interesting, entertaining, and helpful to their audience. And if it's something outside of that, it doesn't matter how good my relationship is. The other side of that, though, is, obviously if I've got a really good story that fits their audience and it checks out right, that's going to be more valuable to them. A good news story is more valuable to them than a per se a long-term relationship if all things are equal. And so to that end, I think it's a combination of understanding that certainly having a warm relationship built on trust and over time is extremely valuable to differentiate and stand out when all things are equal. But if all things are not equal, they're going to lean towards the story that is the most newsworthy. So I'd like for us to kind of talk through that and set that table because your first point, why relationships matter in media pitching, spot on. But I think we need to explain to the audience at home that just because you have those relationships doesn't mean you're for lack of better word, manufacture news or make things happen that aren't going to be as interesting. So if you don't mind kind of expressing and talking about that, I think that would be helpful too.

[00:03:16] – [00:04:57]

Tiffany

Yes, I believe relationships matter a lot when it comes to newsrooms as well as with PR. Basically, you don't want to be a stranger. I working in news for 18 years would get tons of vague generic pitches in my email box that had no personal tone to it. Only had my name on it, but nothing else. They did no research on who I was. They were just pitching to me. And it would be like sometimes health or tech. And I'm like, why are you not pitching this to the health or tech reporter? That, you know, why are you pitching this to me? Do you who like, did you do research on who I am? And I working in local news built relationships with PR agencies, your agency as well as some other agencies. We would meet for lunch. They sometimes invited me to their facility to meet people in there and I would shake their hands. I invited them to the newsroom. It was getting to know each other in that way. So I know what kind of person you are and what kind of pitches I like. Every reporter is different. Some people want short to the point. I like a little bit more detail when I was getting a pitch to make sure it actually is newsworthy. There is value to it. There is a hook. And so that relationship mattered, getting to know the person. And it's impossible to know every reporter, every producer, every assignment desk editor. But you get to pick and choose who you think and build that on that relationship, and then they can get your story into the newsroom. It's like, for example, knowing how a newsroom operates is so important. Maybe just find someone to explain that to you. An assignment desk editor or a planning editor. In local news is a very important person to know because they are the ones that update the calendar. And when there's an editorial meeting every morning, they read from the editorial calendar, like this is what's going on today. These are the pitches that were sent to us, the ones that made it into the calendar. So if you know that person, there's a good chance maybe if one of your clients has let's say an energy event that's coming up. If it happens to be a topic that we're covering at the moment, maybe we will cover it. But knowing the editorial person gets that pitch put into the calendar so it's read in the meeting. It's like getting to know the people and how a newsroom works. So it's very important, I feel like, in that aspect. I think a lot of people in PR and media relations do not understand how newsrooms operate.

[00:05:39] – [00:07:27]

Jason

Well, I'm gonna agree with you about that one hundred percent. I think that one of the biggest challenges in public relations right now, there's several challenges I would say. One of them is that when people think of public relations, they tend to either think about media relations or crisis management. And there's, you know, so much more to PR than just those two signature or well known you know, features or key roles that PR plays. I think the second part is that more and more professionals are jumping straight into PR right out of college or otherwise, and they don't have the unique insights and experience that you and I have from having worked in newsrooms. And that's creating some significant challenges and them understanding, you know, what sounds great inside the boardroom or inside a conference room does not necessarily translate to a third party like a journalist. Because as we talked about earlier, journalists have this special obligation to their audience to report fair and balanced news that's accurate, entertaining, informative and and and helpful. whereas a company is often motivated by what does leadership want to see? What are our sales and marketing objectives for the quarter? And how do we, you know, force those into a news story? And that's just not what is ever going to work from a journalistic standpoint. So that lack of what's the word I'm looking for? being entrenched into a newsroom and having lived and worked in that environment of understanding the news factors and the news judgment and the elements of news that are going into newsroom decisions of what to cover. One is extremely helpful. Two, understanding the pace of news and that, you know, lower lesser news newsworthy stories get bumped. understanding that the story that a story that features your company is going to be way less newsworthy to a newsroom than something that is breaking news or you know where you can be helpful. So I think that's another challenge within itself. So if there's somebody in our audience who's consuming this, who's either thinking about getting into PR or is already in PR, I would encourage them to find a way to do a newsroom tour, shadow a news a a journalist for a day. even get an an internship or a a job in the newsroom, you know, if they can find one to really get that experience, or just be a freelancer or correspondence, maybe on the side. but nothing can replace that newsroom experience. So whenever I talk to college students, I'm like, are you writing for your campus paper? Are you reporting for your campus or student TV station or something like that? because that is an irreplaceable skill set that you don't necessarily just get to have. And but when you have it, it becomes extremely valuable.

[00:08:25] – [00:09:48]

Tiffany

Yes, I was going to say it's also you need to consume news yourself. Like you need to know what's going on. If say you believe you have a great pitch with a great topic and a great expert, do not send it on a day where there's like a mass shooting or a hurricane or things going on where that's not even going to get slightly noticed. You need to make sure, I mean, I know in the mornings there might not be breaking news, and later in the afternoons breaking news happens and then stories get pushed. But knowing that there's not a huge event, there's a little bit of a lull in the local news going on right now, that might be a great time to get your pitch, you know, to the reporter. But, you know, interrupting their day when there's insanity going on, it's not going to build a strong relationship. I like phone calls. I personally like getting a phone call, and I believe that's a great way to build a relationship. Like there's a good chance your pitch will get lost in an email. But if like you call and say, hey, I sent you this, if you get a chance, look at it. Maybe not, I know not everybody's like that, especially some people are very anti-phone calls. I personally like it. I think it's a great way to get to know people and build that trust with someone. But you have to understand that that not all reporters are that way. So you kind of have to figure out how they work. Maybe even when you get a chance to speak with them, be like, what do you prefer? Get to know their preferences, make some notes on them. on how they prefer to be communicated. Maybe they even like being talked to in social media over email.

[00:09:53] – [00:11:14]

Jason

That's really good. I saw somebody recently post on LinkedIn saying that they find it annoying when a journalist when a PR person contacts them and asks permission to send them a story or ask them, you know, you know, if it's okay to share more details about something. And their response was, just send it. Like I don't have time for you to, you know, tease or or or warm me up to it. Just send it to me. And you know, I responded to her and I just simply said, Hey, for every every person that feels the way you do, I can tell you there's two or three others that feel differently. And so I think that's a key message that I want our audience to hear is that, you know, journalists are not, you know, following the herd and all doing the same thing. Everybody's got a different personality and a different style and a different preference. And a lot of people jumped in behind me and basically said this, you know, like they agree with me, you know, because literally she's complaining about one thing and I've had journalists complain about the exact opposite. Like you're just sending me a news release, you don't know me, I don't know you, and you know, it feels like a cattle call or you're just spamming me. And so relationships still matter. I'm, you know, quasi known for saying, you know, it's time we put relationships back into public relations because so many people are thinking about publicity and damage control and not really building strategic relationships with, you know, your your key audiences, which, you know. I think the audience is both an or the media is both an audience, a channel, and a tool of public relations. And you know, when we don't think about it that way, we're really leaving out you know, a lot of PR opportunity. but so what we typically will do when we get the best response and the best results when we come to a journalist and we say, and and honestly by phone, right? We call ahead of time and we say, Hey, Tiffany, we've got this story. It looks like X, Y, and Z. You know, before I send it to you, I wanted to ask your permission to send this your way and if you think it's something that would be interesting to you. Now, nine times out of ten, we're going to get their voicemail. And that's pretty much the message we leave on their voicemail. Now, journalists are busy in newsrooms, as you and I both agreed. So we're not going to wait for them to get back to us, but we're going to put a period of time of courtesy for them to potentially get back to us. But then we're going to go ahead and send it and met reference. Hey, left you voicemail about this, wanted to get this in front of you. You know, and it's basically the same thing. Do what can we tell you more details about X, Y, and Z? Now my point to our clients is and to my team is this one, we know from research this works better. Two, they're going to see the email andor hear the voicemail, and that's going to be a trigger or a reminder for them to cons give it a second look. And it works like a charm every time. Now I've had people say to me, Jason, that sounds like an awful lot of work. Well the good things come from hard work, right? And so building that relationship and planting that seed and establishing yourself as a trusted resource and a and building a relationship, I found to be really important. And then one more thing I would just add to that, Tiffany, is simply this that following up with journalists, a lot of people, PR people won't follow up. And when they do, they do a really poor job of just saying, hey, wanted to make sure you saw this. You know, hey, are you going to cover this? And my rule of thumb to my team and advising our clients is simply this every touch point should add value to the relationship. Every touch point should be another piece of insight, information, background, material, helpful content to progress the decision to cover this. And the ultimate compliment I think we get as media relations practitioners is when a journalist comes to us and says, Thank you for following up with me on this. And like, I pause there because that's a big win, you know, because most times journalists are like, you know, stop following up with me on this. But if we do it right, they thank us for following up, thank us for being courteous and you know, professionally persistent and adding value to each stage of the conversation or each follow-up. And then lastly, they generally tell tell us, you know, I this just isn't gonna, you know, this isn't gonna work for what we cover, or they will say, Thank you for following up. I wanted to cover this originally, but I was on other assignments or priorities and now I have time to do it. And to me, that's the ultimate compliment. And so we celebrate feedback or excuse me, we celebrate follow-ups at our agency when those types of things happen because that persistency pays off, especially when you know you're reaching the right journalist at the right outlet with the right content or topic or pitch angle. And it's just a matter of timing. And I think that's one thing clients don't really understand, like.

[00:14:17] – [00:15:29]

Tiffany

Yes, I 100% agree. And think email pitches. I like I said, I've gotten a lot throughout my career. What I find weird is I have some PR companies that some reason have my personal email and they have emailed me there instead of my business email. And I've emailed them back from my personal email and say, Hey, this is my personal email. Please take this off your list. And they continue to email me like and I'm like so s they're not even checking my responses, obviously, or they're just ignoring them. And that's not gonna build a relationship with a a reporter. Don't bother them on their personal email and their personal phone. You know, that's their you need to call their work phone. You need to email their work email. That's work that you know, they have a life outside of the newsroom and they don't wanna be bothered by PR pitches, you know, at midnight on their personal email account, which has happened to me. And I'm just like it automatically kind of makes me not like that agency. You know, it's like, it's like you're getting in my personal space. That's my workspace.

[00:15:38] – [00:17:23]

Jason

Yeah, for sure. I agree with that. I'm wondering just for thinking about this for a minute, I'm wondering if they're, you know, data scraping from maybe, you know, maybe your LinkedIn is connected to your personal email, which I would encourage most people to do that. because you could lose your LinkedIn account login if if it's not. And so maybe they're scraping it that way, or maybe you're in some database that they're using, you know, by accident. The other thing I I've heard of, I'm not saying this is bad. I think to your point about, you know, you're replying to them and they're still continuing to send you messages. I've heard of other companies that will use what's called cold email software. So basically software that lets you send a whole bunch of marketing emails cold to people who didn't opt into your email list. I've heard of journalists or not journalists, media relations practitioners. Who will use those same exact software programs to create what's called a drip or a sequence email campaign to pitch journalists. So basically they send out the first round of pitching and they've got a series of scheduled follow-ups that are happening. And when those when that software is set up correctly, you can pause the campaign to that individual once they respond. And then you can either manually reactivate the campaign or man manually take it over and take it out of the automation. sequence. And so I'm wondering if that's what you're seeing is they've opted you into a some software they're sending email. They scraped your data from another, you know, website or maybe even a directory service they subscribe to. Then they continue to email you and they're not paying attention to when you reply to because you can put in the settings if they reply automatically pause or if they reply we'll manually pause. And they may not be doing that. and I think that's something I've talked about a lot on this podcast and in my career is, you know, we have more powerful tools than we've ever had at our disposal before. But with great power comes great responsibility. And so making sure you're not, you know, using spamming software to spam newsrooms because that will really harm or hurt your reputation. When when we think about your colleagues in newsrooms, Tiffany. Do you sense that your attitude of a phone call and building relationships is more is it a generational thing? Is it a personality thing? Like where would you peg that? Because you know, I came up in journalism and people, you know, were very Cremungeon and very cynical and jaded. I've been yelled at by, you know, a assignment desk editor or producer.

[00:18:09] – [00:21:30]

Tiffany

I have an idea. I believe it's a personality preference, not a generational preference. because I work with people my age and I work with people older and younger than me. I prefer phone calls, but I have some people my age that like if they get a phone call, they like shrink into the ground. They like freak out. It's like when the doorbell rings, they freak out, you know? And then I have other people that love it. And so I believe it's more of a personality thing. Yes, some of the younger generation doesn't use the phone as much as we did growing up. But again, it's I feel like it's an extrovert versus introvert thing. I think some people that are introverted prefer email because they can disguise themselves behind it. And then along with the relationship thing, what's happening in newsrooms is insane right now. Newsrooms are completely changing, which is going to change how PR people are going to start pitching. with all the mergers, companies buying each other local news as well as national. I I am seeing one of the biggest shifts I've seen in a long time in newsrooms. places like CNN and other places, even local news I'm seeing, are leaning kind of into like the influencer era. where they're even having their reporters do social media videos that come off a kind of influencer, more not as perf not the word professional, I guess more intimate. They like the reporters are dressed in t-shirts. They use microphones like this instead of like a microphone that's set up. they use kind of like the selfie when sometimes when they're talking. It's completely changing the way they're doing stories online because the younger generation is consuming news differently. And so I have a feeling PR agencies, media relations agencies are all going to have to change the way we're pitching because it's it's not necessarily it's a wonderful story anymore. It's will this get views, will this get clicks, will this go viral? Like those are becoming things that matter in newsrooms now, which, you know, is that great? I don't know. You know, that's everybody's own opinion to that. But I'm seeing that dramatic the shift dramatically change inside newsrooms. This is going to change the way we talk to reporters and the way we pitch to reporters. And, you know, a lot of people that were from the generation of the person you were speaking out are now retiring. So I feel like we're going to get a lot less attitude from some of the younger people, but you're gonna also get. Well, it doesn't matter, no one's going to watch it, type attitude.

[00:23:06] – [00:24:01]

Jason

Hmm. Yeah, interesting. I'm also seeing where some newsrooms are, and I don't this may not be happening anymore, but there was a moment I noticed, and it may be still continuing, where newsrooms are hiring influencers or people who have a strong following who don't necessarily have a journalism background, but they have a storytelling background, recruiting them to come work or correspond for their news outlet to help attract a different audience, a different generation, maybe.

[00:23:33] – [00:24:15]

Tiffany

Well, 100%. I'm not gonna say what position in what newsroom, but I had recently interviewed for a new position. It was a social media producer position where they needed someone that could write well and edit. And I felt fit all the categories. I had the experience, I knew how to edit, I know how to write, I know how to pitch stories. I'm even uncomfortable being on camera if they needed me to be. But they basically said to me in the interview, Well, you're not an influencer and we don't want traditional journalists anymore. And I was like, what? I was like, so you think it's easier to train an influencer to be a journalist versus a journalist being an influencer? I think it's easier for a journalist to learn how to do that on camera stuff, but maybe I'm wrong. So

[00:24:15] – [00:25:26]

Jason

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, you know, everybody's looking for the hack or the, you know, the the the competitive advantage, if you will. And, you know, I think, you know, you're making me think of something else, which is that like a lot of journalists, you know, when you're on the air a lot, for example, you know, they get an automatic following of people, you know, because of their prominence and because they feel connected to them. But I've also sensed that once those journalists hang up their, you know, their microphone or their camera or their whatever and they they move into a different profession, that, you know, they're not as connected and in front of that audience anymore. So they either have to really nurture on social media that audience, or I think their relevance and and prominence with that audience starts to fade away. And, you know, on the other side, we're seeing companies hire journalists that have a big following to come do PR for them, if you will. And I think that works for a time. But then, like, you know, like I'm saying, like as that audience you know, starts to see that it's more of a commercial endorsement or content than it was, you know, news content. And I I think that's very true for anchors, right? Because and and r and you know, reporters as well, but the people on camera. And so you're seeing newsrooms try to hire influencers and you're seeing corporations try to hire newsrooms and influencers to come create their content. And, you know, for 10 years or more now, we've been saying that, you know, every company needs to be p thinking of themselves as a media company, right? Because there's all these media channels and platforms they can be producing content on. And if they want to be out there and they want people seeing them, they've got to be you know, producing content and thinking of of themselves as a media company, not just a, you know, home home services company or family entertainment center or you know insurance services or financial services.

[00:26:05] – [00:26:31]

Tiffany

Yes, one hundred percent. I agree.

[00:26:31] – [00:27:25]

Jason

To be candid, media relations is probably one of my favorite topics. there's a lot of nuances, it's a lot of misunderstanding that people have. There's a lot of perception that all you gotta do is, you know, call up your buddy and have them get you on the news. But as we're gonna talk about, that's not always the case. there's a lot of standards and expectations and criteria. Just yesterday, somebody sent me an email. I don't even know this person. They said, Hey, what does it cost for you to get me on? USA Today. you know, I want to be in USA Today. So my first reaction was, well, one, why USA Today? Right. And so they came back and it was, you know, kind of a a vanity, you know, reason like, well, it's a high domain authority website. I'm like, okay. And then my favorite question, yeah, yeah, exactly. And my favorite question is, okay, what is it about you, your company, your story, your experience, your insight, and your, you know, topics, tips, and trends. There's lots of those. That make you interesting to USA Today's audience. And of course, well, I haven't really thought about that. I'm like, okay, well, that's where it all starts, right? And if you haven't framed that together, we could certainly help you figure that out and find that story angle. But we can't just say, hey, meet Joe. he wants to be interviewed, right? You got to put it all together. So I think that's the important part about not just relationships with newsrooms, but understanding a messaging strategy and how you go about approaching a newsroom.

[00:27:25] – [00:28:19]

Tiffany

Yes. And newsrooms are different when it comes to local versus national. I've worked in both. I worked in local news as well as CNN. And the way you pitch to each of those is way different. And local news, less people. There's not necessarily always beat reporters because they only have a handful of reporters covering everything. So that's really relationship based. But when it comes to CNN, it's about knowing the beats. Like they have a tech reporter. They have a financial reporter. They have a health reporter. So you got to make sure you're pitching to the right person. If you send a health story to the tech reporter three or four times, whenever they see the email, they're just going to delete it because they know you weren't paying attention to who they were and what they were all about. You got to make sure you're sending it to the right people. And when it comes to the national level, and also understanding that when you make a pitch to somewhere like CNN, it needs to be a story that matters to more than just the local audience. It matters to the national audience, the international audience. But when it's hyper local, like a local news station, it gotta make sure it matters to the people in that community. If it matters to too many people, they're not gonna wanna cover it because local news focuses on local.

[00:28:32] – [00:30:17]

Jason

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And Tiffany, I'm I'm a PR person through and through, but I also have this podcast. I write for some business magazines and things like that. And I get pitched. And some of the pitches I get, you know, are like, hey, I'd like you to write about this, you know, community fundraiser we did for some kid that had cancer and we were able to raise $2,000 by doing a bake sale. And I'm like, help me understand how that's relevant to people. One outside well, first of all, you know, let me say, hey, great. I'm glad you did that. That sounds like it was very helpful to a family in need, right? Of course. But secondly, how's that newsworthy to my audience of marketing and public relations communication leaders? And secondly, how does that fit into the business publications or you know, outlets that I'm, you know, writing for or being, you know, having the opportunity to have a platform for? Of course, right? I'm wasting my time even communicating that because they just spam me with a whole bunch of other people, right? And it genuinely wasn't authentic. But I will pause and reply to that when I'm getting contacted by a business person who is suggesting, you know, that I should cover something about a new product launch that they're doing. And I'm like, which of my platforms do you think a product launch for a, you know, mechanical engineering platform or tool might be helpful, right? And so I'm trying to give back by educating, but I think you're kind of loot, you know, wasting your time because these people didn't spend any time really kind of thinking through that. I think our audience would like to know though, I would like to know, Tiffany, is not only does CNN have a healthcare or finance reporter who is the right point of contact, but do the different shows also have different contacts like that as well. So meaning that, you know, a show on CNN, a particular program might have different beat riders than other ones do.

[00:30:17] – [00:31:30]

Tiffany

Well, every show has a show team where they have like an executive producer, senior producers, regular producers, segment producers, writers. they have big show teams in CNN are much bigger than like a show team and local news. Like local news is like usually one person doing it all. while CNN has a wide variety of people. They used to have reporters per show. Like there used to be certain reporters assigned to certain shows, but they've recently started going away with that. And making it where reporters report for everything. so there is like a shift happening right now. like when Wolf Blitzer used to be on at 6 p.m., Brian Todd used to specifically report for Wolf Blitzer, but now that's not the case. so there is a shift going on at CNN where reporters are covering for all shows. So if you pitch a story to a specific reporter and they like it, it might air at 2 p.m. It might air at 11 p.m. You never know anymore. But there are show teams for particular shows. So if you get to know the executive producer of like Aaron Burnett's show, they would definitely want way different stories than the shows for the morning show at CNN. Like they're different kind of vibes, do they cover different things? So it's there are different producers for each show, but reporters is kind of like CNN's going where they don't have specific reporters for specific shows anymore.

[00:31:38] – [00:33:52]

Jason

Mm-hmm. Okay. And you you mentioned something that I think is important for our audience. And that is each show is different. Each show has a different program, different personality, different format, different style, different angles, different storytelling techniques. And, you know, I know we said this earlier in our conversation, maybe not earlier in how the audience might consume it, but ultimately, you know, you've got to consume news to see what's happening in the marketplace. And you know, my prescription to anybody would be if you really want to be in a particular show or a particular news outlet, you've got to study it. You've got to read it, you've got to view it, you've got to consume it. Take notes, make whether that's real notes or mental notes of how they cover something. And then when you're pitching them, try to emulate that storytelling format or that that that setup, if you will. Or just kind of vis give them, you know, even direction on, you know, how you think they might cover it. Respectfully, obviously don't tell them how to do their job, but demonstrate to them that you've been a student of their programming for some time and you understand how they package and and the angles they might take. Otherwise, you know, you could be dead wrong. another example might be that, you know, we might have a client have an opportunity or pitching them for an opportunity if it's not secured yet. On let's say a 30 minute, 60 minute you know, sh news show. And you know, they may not realize that they're only gonna be on that show for four minutes of the 30 minutes, right? If that of the 60 minutes. Now, like even like the the magazine news show 60 minutes, right? They generally have three stories they do per episode, unless they've got something really big they're covering, right? And they'll they'll make it longer. Maybe sometimes they have like three stories and a and a little thing at the end that they do to fill the time or something like that. But, you know, a lot of times I tell people, your interview is going to be no longer than four minutes. So don't waste it, you know? And and and and I would think too, most of our clients, they probably don't want to be more than four minutes because that means there's probably not the best story being told about them, right? Like more of an expose and things like that. So if you're sending a client in or you're going in yourself and you've never consumed the show, you may not understand what to expect. So Tiffany, back to you would be what what advice would you give to that might be different or in addition to what I shared?

[00:34:00] – [00:35:18]

Tiffany

Understanding also if you're not like if you're live on the show, you might have like three or four minutes to talk. Keeping those answers short and concise. I've seen so many experts where they're the anchor asks them a question. They answer so long, like the answer is like a minute and a half. So they only get like two questions in before the interview's over. The producer in the booth is timing the show. They have to hit commercial breaks at a certain time. They have to get out at a certain time. They are not going to extend your interview unless it's earth shattering just because you are long-winded. So that's something I want people to know. Two, if you're doing a reporter comes out to you to do, say they're doing a story on heat-related issues and they're talking to you about how you heat proof your house to make sure your AC bills don't go up. They might take only two sound bites from you. They might not even mention your company more than once and you'll your lower third might say your company's name and that might be the only other mention you have. It's not going to be an advertisement for you. And I think a lot of times people are like, I'm going to be on the news. People are going to know so much about my company because I'm on the news. No, it's just getting your name out there. And you'll be in the written article, you know, and so, and so will your company. And so that's a way. But it's understanding that this story isn't about you all. you know, a lot of companies think the stories are about them and it's not. We're taking what your expertise is and adding it to a story that matters to people.

[00:35:26] – [00:37:13]

Jason

There's definitely a time and place for an opportunity to have your company story told if it's packaged right and it's pitched the right place and the right way. And there's something memorable, insightful, or you know, overly challenging or interesting about the odds or the the things that you're doing in your company. But for the most part, in my experience, the stories that actually help a company accomplish, you know, greater visibility and more, maybe more leads and more sales. comes from sharing your insights and your thoughts, your on topics, tips, and trends as a trusted expert who's not trying to promote themselves, right? And instead is trying to help that audience. That's where the trust starts to build up. So we've seen clients who their company gets featured in a media outlet and the phone rings because people are trying to sell services and products to the company, right? So it was nice to have their company featured the way they wanted. But the outcome that came from that is actually inbound solicitations, right? Not leads. But what I've seen happen is when someone's just quoted in a little tiny, you know, box in a news story, or they just get a quote or a sound bite on a on a TV show, and they're offering something helpful and interesting and maybe unique, provocative, or a unique point of view. Maybe it's about, you know, how to improve your home's efficiency or how to, you know, I identify and select the best contractor. when they hear something helpful, they're naturally attracted to go, man, that was smart, that helped me. And it's only that one little blurb. I find that that converts more leads and more opportunities for our clients than than a huge feature might ever be. I also find that audiences generally are gonna consume smaller bytes, meaning shorter stories or you know, shorter pieces of content than they're gonna read a whole feature. So if I'm flipping through a magazine, a newspaper or flipping channels or or browsing on the internet and a video is really long, I'm gonna watch part of it, get what I want, and get out. and so I find that, you know, shorter is sometimes better, even though clients, you know, seem to think they want something longer. Tiffany, when you're in the newsroom, how are they training you to keep people engaged with your content and and what kind of insight can you share with, you know, how long does somebody typically stick with something before moving on?

[00:37:36] – [00:39:20]

Tiffany

Over the years it's gotten shorter. people's attention spans with all the mass content and the two screens and sometimes three screens that we are now. People's attention spans has gotten a lot shorter, which means like you have to grab people's attention very quickly. Like when you are doing a social media video, if you don't usually grab the person within the first few seconds, they will move on. They will scroll. It's grabbing them within the first few seconds and keeping. There's like they've done studies, they're still adjusting, adapting, but like each platform has a certain time frame of how long someone will watch something. Obviously, if someone's going to YouTube to watch something, they're going to watch longer videos than if they're on Instagram or TikTok. Those need to be like less than a minute for sure. If you make them longer than a minute, people lose interest and move on. they don't and you have to keep like don't withhold the most important information till the very end. You know, people aren't gonna stick around. If your headline says this one thing, but they don't s hear what you're talking about within the first ten seconds, they're gonna move on. And I think that's a mistake a lot of people make online, even me as a consumer, like when I'm like I click on something because it has a topic that I'm interested in, and then it it's like dragging on before they even make the point of what the headline was. It you know, that's not that's not good. people listen to news more, which has been a trend for a while than they do watch per se. Like they'll have if they have like CNN or Fox on, they're listening while they're cooking or they're listening while they're getting their kids ready for school. so you have to make the language very clear, very concise, very straight to the point s for them to, you know, so for people can consume it. Because people also listen to podcasts a lot more than they used to. So news is a lot that way too. And if people want long podcasts, they'll go search for them. But having even shorter podcasts, I personally like a 30-minute podcast. That's like my favorite length when when I'm consuming it. And I do it with like when I'm walking and, you know, for exercise or something. That's when I like to listen to them. And I like them to be 30 minutes. sometimes, you know, short some people want them shorter. So there's like 10 minute podcasts you can choose from. There's also the hour, hour and a half ones. I'd I

[00:39:42] – [00:40:25]

Jason

Mm, yeah. Yep. There's also the four hour ones. Same, yeah. Yeah. Which I think's insanity. Who has the time for that? I mean, I don't have time for that. So you know, so yeah. D did that answer what you were asking? Yeah. My Yeah, for sure. A lot of the people I know that do the four hour podcast do it while they're working. And I can't be I have to solo I have to solo focus when I work, soul focus. I can't multitask, but you know, some people that helps them. So, you know, I've got buddies, for example, that listen to Joe Rogan during at work and another podcast the second half of their day or whatever. And you know, Tim Ferris is one of my you know, favorite people. I've been following him since six, seven before he was well known. Now he's got a podcast, but I never listen to his podcast because they're just so long. You know, I just I can't even keep up. you know, going back to the question before though, what techniques have you learned in a newsroom that you think could apply to corporate communications and public relations activities, such as, you know, keeping people's attention or just any kind of techniques or best practices? And and and also not to set up too much of a loaded question, but

[00:40:51] – [00:44:06]

Jason

How then could that be integrated into their media pitching and their outreach? And one thing I guess I would tee up for you is that journalists are always looking for a visual or imagery to go with a story. And so I think it's a mistake for PR people to not bring with bring to the reporter a great pitch lined up with great visuals or ideas for visuals. And then a second step I are a third step I highly encourage is, you know. adding in in addition to my expert, you could also talk to these two other experts who either I know or I've already connected with and they're already ready to, you know, to talk to you. Cause as I think we said in our last recording, you know, to me the best media pitch is a news story that's already done for them.

[00:41:34] – [00:44:06]

Tiffany

Yeah, I would like 100% agree with that. Is news is ever changing and companies now have their own like many media departments. Like a police department is going to have someone that's helping with videos. And you know, when they send the videos out to newsrooms, they might already be edited or they might have to send the raw depending on the type of story. that's very helpful. It's for like smaller stories, like when I worked in local news, we you always want to end the show on like a happy note, usually. You know, you don't want to leave people with depressed thoughts at the end of your show. So usually it's called a kicker. and it would always be helpful say there was a race for a cure of some type, and they had someone take videos, like good quality video and great pictures, and they sent that to the newsroom and they in detail write everything that happened, how much money they raised, what this is going to, that might make it in as a kicker. You know, you might get that coverage because you sent we didn't have enough reporters to send out to this event because there was so much happening. And it's not that we didn't necessarily care. It's again, it's staffing. You know, newsrooms aren't just full of people. They are very sometimes very small. And so sometimes having that video and stuff sent helps. Like say, you're a tech company and you want, which is, you know, like hot right now in the news, and you want your tech company covered for something. Maybe even having like in your your pitch, like a produced video explaining what your company does that's high quality, that has experts talking in it. So like a newsroom can watch it and be like, this is actually quite interesting. They might come out to you, but having that video already helps. And if they do a store on you, they're probably going to use some of that video in the story that they're going to do. So that stuff does help because there's so much going on. And remember, reporters are getting massive amounts of emails. Like I can't even explain the amount of emails I would get every day, not just from external people, but internally. Like it was almost impossible to keep up with. And so just doing like two line email sometimes is not gonna get the attention anymore that you need that you need. It's like you need to think of how you're presenting your company, how you're presenting yourself. Like what what makes it flashy? Like you have to grab the reporter's attention just like we have to grab the viewers' attention. and you have to do it quickly because people will lose interest, reporters will lose interest, you know? So those are some techniques that I think some people can do, definitely including elements or even prov like providing details. I like, because I was a producer and when I had a pitch, I would try to pitch it in as detail as possible. I like to have details about a story. Again, not everybody's that way. It's getting to know the reporter. but if someone pitched me an idea and they added value and they added like a hook and they added reasoning, like it connects to this story that's going on right now. That would help me when I go into the editorial meeting and I'm like, hey, so we've been talking about this topic for the past couple days. Here's a way that we can extend it since it's getting great traction online, you know. And also people have to understand sometimes people just don't care about stories. Like sometimes I will think a story is gonna go gangbusters, and I'm like, this is such a good story. People are gonna share it and nobody cares. You know? It's like, and you're just like, well, I read that wrong. And so when the person does a follow-up, I have to be honest, like, hey, you know, this isn't getting us clicks and views. And people also forget is newsrooms are business. They're not, I mean, like NPR and stuff like they're public broadcasting, they're a little bit differently. Like public newsrooms are a little bit differently than, but like CNN, Fox. They're businesses. They're looking to make money, you know. And if something's not gonna get them coverage, they you know, I mean get them clicks and views, it might not be covered, you know.

[00:45:33] – [00:46:54]

Jason

Earlier this year we had a great story we were pitching and we got great coverage from eighty percent of the news outlets that we wanted to have cover it. twenty percent just didn't touch it. And I actually went back to those 20% and I don't know how you'd feel about this, but I screenshot an email I received from one of those outlets that covered it where they said, This is our top story all week long. And I just said to them, I was like, Look, this story has legs. It's not too late for you to cover it. And, you know, and I said, and I'm willing to give you, you know, some other angle that was different from what was already covered. Not a nanor nanner, right? But a moment of just saying, Hey, this story's still fresh. It is relevant to the audience. And, you know, I'm happy to help you. I think I retracted the name of the outlet that actually said that. but I wanted them to see that the you know, I brought them what we thought was a really good story. And the fact that they didn't cover it was a decision on that day that I understand and respect. You can't cover everything you want to cover. But I thought there would be an opportunity for them to come back. One of them responded and did a story later, and the other outlet just simply never covered it at all. you know, of course they're on our radar because it's going to be an ongoing developing story that we'd like to bring them in on, you know, as time goes on and as there's new milestones or new things. But what I wanted them to see because they said they just didn't think it was, you know, a high priority story for their audience. And candidly, you know, their direct competitor covered it and it was crushing it as far as visibility goes. So anyway, that's just a technique, whether it's good or bad, that, you know, I chose to deploy in that moment to try to get more attention for a story that we candidly, kind of selfishly wanted to see a hundred percent, you know, opt in to getting it covered.

[00:47:12] – [00:48:18]

Tiffany

Think it's a mentality that local newsrooms need to change because everything's evolving so quickly is sometimes newsrooms don't want to cover something because their competitor covered it and they don't see the value in it. And I I think that's a bad way of thinking still from like I was in local newsrooms and I saw that. And I used to think that way. But you know, being outside of a local newsroom for a while, people don't watch all the local news stations. So say in Jacksonville Yeah. So in Jacksonville, if like someone watched First Coast and that you had that story on there and they but they wa they WJXT, like they WJXT does a story, they might not see it 'cause they watch First Coast, you know, it's like stop thinking because you're second to the story that it doesn't matter. I think that's something newsrooms need to learn. It is not always about the fastest anymore. It's about the most accurate, the most in-depth, the most personal. So it's like, say, first coasted a story and it did well, but maybe you can offer their competitor a more in-depth look, maybe that will do even better. And so I think it's a mentality that newsrooms need to change. And I don't think what you did is necessarily wrong, but also you have to know whoever you sent it to would receive it well and they won't be like, he's snarky. I'm not gonna deal with him. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:48:29] – [00:49:24]

Jason

Yeah, no, they they got it. Yeah, fortunately they got it. But no, I and I I'll tell you, several years ago I we put together a a news conference and there were two reporters there. one is an anchor, one is more of a junior reporter. And what I love to see was that you know they were helping each other cover the story. And I've never really seen that before. So, you know, like they were the two ladies were, you know, reviewing each other's makeup and making sure it looked good. And they were holding the mic while the other one was doing something. And I pointed that out to some of my colleagues who were there, the ones who really put on the news conference for the client. And I said, That's really cool to see. And they were like, Well, okay. But they didn't come from, you know, the understanding, I think the the competitive spirit that's always been there in newsrooms where, you know, they're not gonna help you get to a story. In fact, they may cut you off in the parking lot so they can get there first, right? But going back to your comment about you know, just because it's been covered by another outlet or something like that, doesn't mean you can't come at it either doing at a deeper story or covering an angle that wasn't covered before or finding a hook or finding a source to tell the story differently. And I think that's a really good approach to to take. tell me about some pitches you've gotten that you know, maybe weren't great, or maybe pitches that stood out to you in a good way.

[00:49:49] – [00:51:44]

Tiffany

Well, I've gotten lots of pitches that weren't great. I guess somewhere maybe on Muckrack or somewhere I it's been I must be like an international reporter because of CNN. I've gotten like sometimes stories f like about Iran and all that stuff and I'm like I don't cover that. You know, it's like it's like you need to find the reporter that covers that. I mean, sure I could forward it to them, but you know. It's like some news seen in such a giant newsroom, you know. so when I was in local news, I really when I did like the morning show, I really enjoyed it when I got pitches for like creative segments that were like visually appealing, that I could bring them into studio and do like a musical thing or a cooking thing or an art thing, something that was visually appealing for like the morning show. Those were always great. I better than like, let me just have someone sit on the couch and talk. Yeah. Like you need visuals, you know. I need or if it was someone on the couch, so we had great video to go along with whatever they were talking about. You know, it's I just didn't want to sit on camera for three minutes straight just showing one person. So those were some of the good pitches I would get that were like visually appealing when I worked in local news. in more CNN-based, it would be pitches that I knew would be great for social media platforms that could be condensed to 30 seconds and would go viral. Like some of like the tech stuff would be great for that. And then having like a whole bunch of video to support it. and great sound bites. you could do a lot of videos on great sound bites. So if you s if you want to present your company, make sure whoever's going to speak for them is very lively and knows how to speak these short clips. because like having a great soundbite can always grab someone's attention, like right off the top of a video. Like they're stating something that like people are like, What? You know. and I've seen so many companies send out a spokesperson that like, wow, I would just fall asleep listening to them talk. You know, it's like, make sure you train your people. Like, you know? So.

[00:51:52] – [00:53:22]

Jason

Yeah. Mm-hmm. So thinking about that, let's say you know, I'm sending a client into a newsroom to do a in studio interview. How long would you coach me that their typical answer to a question should be? Is it is it fifteen seconds?

[00:52:09] – [00:53:22]

Tiffany

Anywhere between 15 and 30. Obviously, you want to make a point. But you people need to understand when they speak every word matters on TV. So don't take a minute to make a point. Like 15 to 30. There's a good chance the producer is going to cut cut it down to 15. that's that used to be the average soundbite, but I notice that slightly has changed. but 30-second sound bites, like do not drag it on after that. Like, like make sure like you study your answers. Like like when you're going in for a job interview, you're gonna do research on the topic. So you when you answer, you're not just rambling. You know, do the same thing. Like you you you know your company so well, you might just start talking and talking and talking and talking. But don't do that, you know. Just look at your company, or you're like, when I'm in this interview, there's four points I want to make sure I hit in this interview. And that's what you need to focus on. Not going off. There might be a question you weren't prepared for, you know, but if you had done some coaching beforehand, there's a good chance you can answer it clearly and concisely. Because if you keep your answer shorter, like I said, if you keep your answer shorter, you will get more questions and more coverage. If you just rambled, you might only get two questions in and then you might not have even hit the four points you wanted to hit because you were just talking for so long.

[00:53:27] – [00:55:07]

Jason

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We had a client years ago who did an interview. I can't remember if it was Business Insider or Forbes. And the journalist said, Hey, I'm only two questions into this interview. We don't have much more time, but your answers are so long that I'm not going to be able to get my story done. And you know, and and I was already, you know, like texting the person because it was a phone call, you know, kind of saying the same thing to him, you know, like your answers have to be way tighter than this. And then you know, and he just kept doing it. And then you could tell he was getting frustrated, I guess at himself, but also, you know, at the circumstance. And the interview never materialized into anything because he was, you know, he was answering so long that the reporter got to ask like three questions and like the 45 minute interview. And so it just got killed ultimately. And so we had to really coach him up because, he's very smart, very successful, but his answers were so long winded. And so you're reminding me kind of of the idea that, I I would target for 15 to 20 seconds in case you go a little bit longer. but be rehearsed before you come in and understand that it's a conversation. And the more questions they can ask you, the more you can cover. And like you said, I like having three to four points that you're gonna make and you say them early and often without sounding, like your keyword stuffing or stuffing your answers into every response. But try to circle back to your key messages, try to keep them entertained or keep it conversational, sound human and natural and quotable. but at the same time I'm also encouraging them to say something, you know, provocative, contrarian, or that has a unique point of view from what everybody else is saying on the topic too, because that will help you be come across as being more memorable.

[00:55:07] – [00:56:41]

Tiffany

And also it's on the reporter too. That takes some reporter training. I've watched reporters with all different levels. If they're a very experienced reporter, they know how to kind of move along a interview. I've seen them where someone answers a question and it's obviously very convoluted, long, and they'll so then they'll ask the question again but in a different way. And so when the person answers again, it's more short and concise. So if on the reporter too, if someone's is going forever, interrupt them. You know, be interrupt them. Like that is okay. And just be like, hey, let's let's think about what you were just saying and try to get them to answer it more short and concise. So it is on the reporter too. So if s but you know, it it it works from both sides.

[00:55:49] – [00:56:42]

Jason

Yeah. Yeah, it's just it's a skill that you have to develop over time for sure. Well, Tiffany, speaking of, we've run out of time for our time together today, but this has been a great conversation. I always enjoy connecting with you. you bring a lot of experience and insight to the table. I'm excited to continue our care our interactions together throughout our career in this next chapter where you're moving into corporate communications and public relations. If there's ever anything I can do for you, just let me know. I'd be happy to help. And the same is true for our audience. thank you for tuning in today to On Top of PR with this episode with Tiffany Anthony. And if there's anything you found interesting this episode, please take a moment to share it with a colleague or friend. Feel free to connect with follow myself or Tiffany on LinkedIn. And if you have any follow-up questions for us, just holler and we'd be happy to hear from you and glad to hear that you caught this episode of On Top of PR.

[00:56:41] – [00:56:42]

Tiffany

Thank you.

[00:56:42] – [00:56:42]

Jason

So with this, I'm saying thank you for our loyal audience for following us, leaving us a review and sharing episodes. And if there's everything we can do for you, just let us know. Otherwise, be well.