How trusted strategic advisors influence leaders

In this episode, James (Jim) Lukaszewski joins host Jason Mudd to discuss how to influence leaders through trust, candor, and strategic communication. 

Tune in to learn more!

Watch the episode here:

Meet our guest:

Our guest is James (Jim) Lukaszewski, president and CEO of The Lukaszewski Group. Jim has advised business leaders through crises and high-stakes situations for more than five decades. He shares practical strategies for becoming the trusted strategic advisor leaders rely on when making important decisions. 

5 things you’ll learn during the full episode:

1. Why trusted advisors begin by understanding leadership challenges before communication challenges
2. How candor helps build credibility with executives
3. The Three-Minute Drill for presenting strategic recommendations
4. Why offering options instead of conclusions leads to better leadership decisions
5. How studying leadership helps communicators become more influential advisors

Listen to the episode here:

Quotables

• “All problems are management and organizational problems before they are any other kind of problem.” — Jim Lukaszewski
• “You have to start where the person you're advising is, not where you think the solution is.” — Jim Lukaszewski
• “Management happens in real time.” — Jim Lukaszewski
• “Anybody who can offer three perspectives or useful concepts about any problem the boss is facing is a valuable person.” — Jim Lukaszewski
• “Your highest and best use … is being a trusted advisor to leadership.” — Jason Mudd

If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to share it with a colleague or friend. You may also support us through Buy Me a Coffee or by leaving us a quick podcast review.

Resources

Guest’s contact info and resources:

• James Lukaszewski on LinkedIn
• James E. Lukaszewski on YouTube
• E911 website
• Crisisguru.ai
• Pre-order the “Influencing Leaders” book
• Pre-order Jim’s new book.
• Email a copy of your receipt to jel@e911.com with the subject line "TOP."
• Follow Jim on LinkedIn.
• Subscribe to Jim’s newsletter.
• When the book is released in August, you'll receive the handbook by email.

Additional Resources:

• Does PR play an active role in your strategic planning? Learn how to make it easier to reach your goals
• Defining leadership in corporate communications
• Axia’s crisis PR service
• Listen to more episodes of the On Top of PR with Jason Mudd podcast.
• Find out more about Axia Public Relations.

If you like this episode, you're going to love this:

• How to be a trusted adviser with Del Galloway
• When a crisis hits, say this or stay silent

 Recorded: July, 2026 

About your host Jason Mudd

Jason Mudd is a nationally recognized public relations expert featured by CNN, Entrepreneur, Forbes, NPR, The New York Times, PRWeek, and The Wall Street Journal.

Named North America’s top PR leader by the World Communication Forum, he serves as Partner of Axia Public Relations — recognized by Forbes as one of America’s Best PR Agencies.

Jason has advised some of the country’s most admired and fastest-growing companies, leading campaigns for iconic brands including American Airlines, Budweiser, Dave & Buster’s, GE, H&R Block, Hilton, HP, Miller Lite, New York Life, Pizza Hut, Southern Comfort, and Verizon.

He’s also a professional public speaker, accredited PR practitioner, published author, entrepreneur, and host of On Top of PR with Jason Mudd — a podcast ranked among the top 2.5% globally by Listen Notes and a top 100 marketing podcast on Apple Podcasts. His guests have included leaders from Disney, Microsoft, Southwest Airlines, and Wells Fargo. Learn more about Jason at https://www.axiapr.com/team/jason-mudd and jasonmudd.com. 

Find more On Top of PR episodes on: 

Transcript

Episode Transcript

00:00:00

Jim

the key ingredients of being a trusted advisor and an influencer, is this ability to get to the problem in a candid way.

00:00:16

Jason

welcome to On Top of PR. I'm your Jason Mud with Axia Public Relations. Today's topic is influencing leaders, the seven disciplines of the trusted strategic advisor. I'm joined by James Lukashetsky. He is America's crisis guru, a best selling author, national speaker, and trusted strategic advisor to business leaders navigating crises.

Disasters and reputation attacks. Since 1974, Jim has confidentially guided hundreds of US and international leaders through tough, touchy, sensitive, high-stakes situations. Corporate Legal Times listed him as one of the 22 crunch time counselors to have on your speed dial when all hell breaks loose. Fortunately, today there's not a lot of hell breaking loose.

in our world for this conversation, at least at this moment. But I'm really pleased to have Jim join us because he has been someone I've followed for many years and learned a lot from him. And I'm glad to bring him and his smarts to our On Top of PR audience today. Jim, welcome to On Top of PR.

00:01:23

Jim

Thank you so much and glad to be here for sure.

00:01:26

Jason

Yeah, I'm glad to be here as well. I'm really glad that you're here. ⁓ it really is an honor, like I said before, to have you ⁓ on my show. And I'm glad I was able to catch you. ⁓ and I know our audience is going to benefit from this conversation as I've benefited from every interaction we've had over the years. So we're here today to talk about influencing leaders, the seven disciplines of the trusted strategic advisor. you have got a new book coming out with that exact title.

And at the end, we're gonna give our audience a little bit of a teaser or an offer about how they can get a complimentary handbook, a practical toolkit for being a strategic advisor. So that sounds great. I look forward to telling more peop more about that. Now we are gonna talk about your book. ⁓ given the time constraints, we're not gonna cover all seven disciplines, but we'll do our best to cover about five of them today. How does that sound, Jim?

00:02:19

Jim

That's pretty good. We can do that.

00:02:21

Jason

Excellent. Excellent. Well, first of all, ⁓ tell me a little bit about how you got into this profession originally.

00:02:29

Jim

Well, ⁓ it's a it's an interesting story, but f fundamentally I was I flunked out of college when I freshman year and had a really interesting life between that and the invention of a special university in Minnesota called Metro State for just for people like me who had all kinds of college background but nobody wanted to give it a degree. and th th this is a school where they actually built the degree based on what you wanted to do. They had no structures of courses or anything like that. Okay. ⁓ and then you and basically you did things by internship. So anyway, ⁓ I I lucked out on the internship in incredibly and I got an internship in the governor's, the state governor's press office. and ⁓ it was it it I was there, I was a press press officer there, a deputy the deputy deputy something something press secretary for 14 months.

And I graduated the program's two years and when I graduated in June of seventy-four, April to April of seventy-four, the governor's office hired me, so I actually became a deputy press secretary. And that's how it started. and I I've just sort of mentioned because I only got this job with this degree, ⁓ I was thirty-two years old. That means I was an intern when I was the thirty-two years old.

00:03:47

Jason

Okay, okay.

00:03:48

Jim

So I was an old intern. The old they actually called me the old guy. The next oldest intern was eighteen. but the thing that happened was that the governor was really committed to interns. It was really quite an experience and there were two rules of our employment there. I was actually I wasn't employed, I was an intern. ⁓ if you were going by a telephone that was ringing and you picked up that phone, you were gonna stick with who's ever than that phone until their problem got rectified or moved along.

no matter what it took, and you'll be supported completely. And the other thing was they wanted us to to see what goes on in the governor's office. And what happened was I I went to all kinds of meetings. ⁓ at first I wasn't a participant in the meetings, ⁓ it was and I really was not familiar with the this level of government at all. ⁓ but eventually they asked me what I thought of things, and so I I gradually got involved in the conversations.

and that was just extraordinary. And that's really the that experience dealing with the these very important people. And midway through his governorship, he was identified by the the press actually as a potential vice presidential candidate because he was a young guy. he had a lovely wife and kid boy and a girl. He was very Kennedy esque because President Kennedy had been killed three ten years before. Okay. So you know, people like Dan Rather and all those famous names came to my desk because I was the intern that greeted people in the press office. Right. And it it was just an extraordinary experience. And so that's how my career started. I I worked for government for a total of six years. After that, I wound up being the deputy commissioner of a state agency. that's another kind of cool story. But so I had a different introduction. Every one of us who in as a PR practitioners had a different introduction to their careers that was mine. And it was really it was extraordinary. And it just got better from there. Anyway, we'll talk about that if you like.

00:05:48

Jason

Wonderful, wonderful. I don't know if you mentioned it, so what was the name of the governor? Who was the governor? W

00:05:53

Jim

Wendell R. Anderson and he was elected in nineteen seventy. he was a Democratic governor. He was actually the the first governor elected in the history of the state of Minnesota that had a democratic legislature as well. Okay. ⁓ so they all got together and spent lots of money really fast.

00:06:11

Jason

Okay, well let's jump in here because like I said, every time we interact, I've learned something and I benefit from it. And candidly I continue to use a lot of your teaching and and refer people to your best practices and recommendations, especially when it comes to, looking for them within our agency to be a trusted advisor to our clients. And as you know, very ambitious up and coming pr practitioners are always looking for a way to not only earn the seat at the table, but be asked, you know, when they're at that seat or when they're in the room, kind of like you mentioned earlier, right? Early in your career, you're an active listener, you're absorbing, and then eventually you want to become that trusted advisor that they want to hear your recommendations from. So you've got this new book coming out. You've written several books, ⁓ and you've done a lot of speaking and a lot of presentations over the years. So these five frameworks we're gonna are disciplines we're going work through today include the first one, ⁓ a proven framework for influencing leaders. So let's talk about that. what is your proven framework and how do we go about influencing leaders who, may or may not be a harder audience to influence than people who aren't leaders, right?

00:07:23

Jim

Well, I if if you wouldn't mind actually I have some unusual views on things and it might helpful be helpful if I talk about my fundamental philosophy. let's do that. Okay. And I I can encapsulate it in really one sentence, which is essentially when you're listening to me, my the my goal for you is to change your mindset and your entire philosophy of work.

And this is what you're changing it to that fundamentally all problems are management and organizational problems before they are any other kind of problem. And I mean that sincerely. And the reason I reason I think this way is because one of the biggest barriers for us to get into the advisory role is we're always talking about communication. And here's the problem. You know, you we are the associate or assistant or advisor ⁓ who really is not well thought of by the people we work for. every boss I've ever worked for thought he was a better communicator than anybody, including me. and so one of the if you were in the room I could see your hands, I would ask you that, you know, how many of you raise your hands if you work for a boss who thinks they're a bad communicator? You're all laughing right now because they all think they're terrific. the issue here really is really understanding where to begin when you begin talking to these people. And the the message is you have to change your mentality about your relationship from the very beginning. It's just really important. the the the notion here is that, and the reality is that of all the advisors to go to to important people.

We're the only ones that they don't listen to. if they we need accounting information, they all call an accountant and they're they're quiet and listen to what the accountant has to say. But when we walk on the room, since they already think they're great communicators, you know, they don't listen to us. They they're busy in their mind debating about, you know, is this guy really as smart as they say he is? You know, has he really got the background he's got? They're not listening at all because they they they just don't do that.

It comes with their training for the most part. recently there was a in fact I'm about to publish an article in the CEO magazine talking about why the 40% of new CEOs fail in the first 18 months. And if you get a more important management job in lower down on the management structure, you're likely to leave even earlier than that.

And they have all kinds of great circumstances. Doesn't fit with the clinical culture, yada yada yada. Right. For me, my experience has been over 40 years, there's one reason, and that's because they're lousy communicators. ⁓ so the there's no sh and the reason there's a reason for that. And the reason is we're always talking about something they think they know a lot about. And many of them actually do. I work for a lot of famous people who are really excellent presenters and all the rest of that. But they're in trouble when they come to me. ⁓ that's a different environment to be in. And you you rarely get to talk to me unless you got pretty serious trouble. Right. ⁓ so the the point is you have to start where the where the with the the person you're advising is, not where you think the solution is. I'm gonna talk about solutions and we talk a little bit further.

You really have to start with where they are and what they are experiencing. And and and that's why I said all problems are management and organizational problems and all management problems, you know, are also leadership problems. Leaders have lots of issues they're facing, and they they they all we can legitimately say depend on communication, but unfortunately, ⁓

That sort of assumption doesn't work until you're dealing with the fundamental underlying problems they're working on. And if that if you can't get there, you're not gonna get there because they don't have a lot of time. ⁓ leadership also resides with those who can maintain more people who support them than defeat them, so to speak, or oppose them. That's a part of your job as a trusted strategic advisor. ⁓ you have to be on their team, even if your advice, as we'll talk about, ⁓ is contrary to the things they really want to do, for example. ⁓ that's part of our job. We'll get there when we talk further about some of the topics here. But you know, you realize that you're part of the team that supports this person going forward ⁓ and surviving ⁓ in the process. And you know, it's a different kind of thinking. ⁓ I will talk about a specific way the specific way that you give advice that hells you help you to do this before we fit through today.

But it's something to to really think about. You have to put yourself in this mental set. And I put it this way. you have to remember who your bus whose bus you're on. Okay. basically, you know, the person who is in charge is the bus driver, and he or she gets to go wherever they want to go. And you have to choose if you're gonna stick on the bus or if you're gonna get off the bus or start your own bus.

but so often we talk like you know, we're gonna drive this thing forward and nothing scares a business person more than having a PR person in charge of much of anything. Let's get there, okay. so this is th this is part of the background that I learned in the when I talked about how I got into the business, so to speak.

I started listening to these people and we had different revelations over time and a lot of a lot of insight from the people who did the work we're talking about today. boils down to this. The the people we're going to advise, that we're going to be giving serious advice to on serious matters, want to make their own decisions. And you know, we tend to think that we are solution finders.

Which we're not. The reason we aren't is because we don't know much about the businesses we're serving. We never do. ⁓ we're not exactly ⁓ most of us really aren't academically and educationally inclined to study things much. We're used to making things up and getting away with that. Not gonna happen. The higher you go, there's somebody who really is smart up there who can detect what's going on.

So this is really a practical way of thinking about this. And the more practical you are, the more pragmatic you are, the more likely you are to be successful at these altitudes. when I talk about advice and and making the decisions, ⁓ this is the hardest part the the consultants face, and that is you think you know the answer and you want to convince them to do it and the problem is they've probably not been through this before. or if they have, they've been stalling a while not doing anything. So it's a pretty big mess when you get called in to help them. But they still want to make the decisions in these it's their company, it's their lifetime, it's their it's really what they do. so I'm talking this way because we really have to look at ourselves from a different altitude in the kinds of things we want to do, especially the more serious the matters are, the the more we have to sync ourselves with where they are and our ex our notice of what they're doing and and start there. Because fundamentally if you start where you are and they start where they are, at the end of the day you're not going to be in the same place and they'll try to find somebody who could be there. ⁓ so it's a very practical way to think and you get things done more quickly.

⁓ going forward. But I think when for the things we're going to talk about in the conversation, it starts with this change of attitude, which is really, really essential. It will change your career and your life because we have to stop doing the things that we do all the time, which I'll talk about as well, which which get in the way of our being effective at being troubleshooters and being being entrusted advisors. I hope that's helpful.

00:15:29

Jason

It is. It's very helpful. Thank you for setting that table. And ⁓ th those are great examples. I'm thinking to myself, ⁓ in my career, you know, when you have difficulty, for example, I wrote down access and influence, right? So when you don't even have access to the decision maker and you're going through an intermediary, it's often unethical, I say, for them to try to represent your recommendations, your rationale, your creative, your content, your strategy on your behalf. And so what we've got to do, I think, is, work hard to elevate our position by being, as we're going to talk about, trusted strategic advisors so that we can elevate our position in the organization and be available to be that trusted advisor to the person who needs it the most. Right. so I'm excited about talking about that with you. The other thing I talk to people about all the time when they're hesitant, for example, maybe to engage an outside agency. They're worried that ⁓ you know, people are gonna wonder what they do. And I express to them what you're gonna be able to do is what you should be doing best, your highest and best use, which is being a trusted advisor to leadership and to management so that you're readily available when they need you and you have the time to step away from the work that you're, you know, would otherwise be doing so that you can be highly available and all in and in the moment with them as opposed to thinking of all the other things you've got to do.

And I learned some of that from you actually, the idea of like rehearsing and being prepared and having a framework for how you go about advising ⁓ clients. And if we're busy all day long chasing deadlines and knocking out deliverables, and then the phone rings and it's the CEO who says, Hey, I need you immediately and you're thinking, ⁓ I either anxious or enthusiastic about the opportunity, but then subconsciously you're thinking about all the other things that just got disrupted in your day, right?

And instead what you need to do is be there so that you have the readily access and and capability of serving the organization at your highest and best use. What do you think about that, Jim?

00:17:28

Jim

When the CEO is on the phone, what you have to know is what do they need from you? What do they expect from you? And over the years, I mean, it's really a fairly simple but challenging list of needs. The first one is candor. They want to know if you can deal with what's happening. I define candor as truth with an attitude delivered right now. And this is the in public relations, this is the hardest thing we ever do.

And I'm gonna talk more about truth because one of the key ingredients of being a trusted advisor and an influencer, which you're gonna hear more about that going forward, is this ability to get to the problem in a candid way.

Now you may say, Well, Jim, I don't work for somebody who asked for the candor. He asks for the other stuff that we do. And I my advice to you is if they don't ask for the candor and demand it, why are you working there? Right.

Right. You know, I'm really serious about this. I probably work with a lot of senior people and they always ask me certain questions. One of the questions they ask them is, you know, how do you how do you get this guy to change his mind? What what is the magic in what you do? And I do have some magic there, I'll share it with you quickly. I have a 10-day rule. ⁓ one of the things that we're known for is constantly introducing new ideas into circumstances.

It drives leaders crazy. They haven't got yesterday's work done. Now they got the mess they're calling about. And you want to come up with a whole new way to do things. Yeah. No, you have to think what that means, disrupting the organization. Why? Because new ideas represent change. And if there's a word that strikes theory to everybody who's got a job in a business, it's that word change. It means things are going to be different and they're not going to be good.

And I'm gonna get the short end of the stick no matter how it's slight. Yeah. So yeah. Let me let me share with you what they're looking for from you. The most important thing looking for from you is candor. The only advice there, if that's what they want, if they don't want that, get out of there. There's gonna be trouble. The second thing, the second thing they want is help with what to do next. That's really why they're calling you. And I I learned this lesson really in my career. I was picked to with four different consultants to advise this insurance c executive, big fancy guy in Minneapolis, and the insurance company was going to change their whole strategy and dump what they were doing and and focus on him because he was really quite a public citizen. So they they interviewed four people to be interviewed by him to be his coach and counselor. And it all boiled down to being interviewed finally by him for 20 minutes. Okay. and Minneapolis is a very flat place. It's on the plains and so they're very there are a lot of tall buildings are are are abnormally tall because they're so flat. His office was at the top of this office, the insurance company building. It was on the hanging on the side of the building. It had three window walls and it was really intimidating. Big doors. And what intimidated me even more was this. When the secretary introduced me to him, she said, Mr. Lukashevsky is here.

When somebody pronounces my name that I never met before correctly, they've done their homework. Okay. So the doors closed, boom, and he grabs my arm. And you have to say something. It's just I said, Wow, what an office. Holy smokes. Grabs me by the arm. We go to the first window. He gives he's got a pitch that he's used a hundred times about the Indians were on this side of the river, blah blah blah, you know. Then then then when I said, Well, what about, you know, I want to get to my subject.

He takes me to the second window, we go to the same thing. And we go to the third window, and about four minutes have passed, and my brain is saying, Jim, say something that matters pretty soon, because the next wall has the door. True story. Yeah. So I asked him a question. I said, Look, you've got fourteen thousand people, I have fourteen, maybe. how do you know what to do every day? I mean, how do you make your decisions?

How do you make the place run? And he kind of he said gets this sort of aweshocks attitude and looked out the window and he said, Well, I I think the board hired me because I've been here a long time and they can trust what I do at least half the time. and there's, you know, there's six hundred and seventy one employees on the seventeen floors below who keep me out of trouble for the r for twenty five percent of what I have to make. He said,

But the problem with the job is they failed to tell me what they wanted for the last twenty five percent. I said, Well, so what do you do? And he's pausing. I said, What do you make things up? He kind of laughed and then he said, Well, somebody said we're making things up. I mentioned this because i it really I didn't know at the time, but that's that's that's why I got the job. But you know.

These people need help where they wouldn't be reaching out. And what the help they need is is important, urgent, different, and not necessarily conform with the 14 tricks that we bring to a business with trying to help these people solve their problems. Another reason why we have to really pay attention to what they're talking about. The third thing they want always is advice on the spot. So so often we are introduced to s a subject in a meeting and we're briefed on it. And then they say, Well, can you think about what we should be doing about this? So we leave the room and we go and think of things. And that's at 10 o'clock in the morning. At 3 30, we come back in the afternoon with some ideas. And what we discover is that, they had a problem to work on. And management happens in real time. So when you left the room, they were still working on it.

That means when you came back to the room, you wanted them to walk back six hours and talk about things all over again. They're they're they get a bit crusty about that. one of the reasons that I had a career was because outside people like me are paid to talk now. They want the information that answers now. You wanna be in this position of advice and influence, you have to be able to give and provide information now.

And I just let me just mention one more because we're gonna get to it. You also have to stop this thinking about that you you come to save the day and you know and solve the problem. You come in kind of like on a white horse with a silver bullet. Silver bullets are very, very rare. and they're almost non existent and myth mythological. but the real issue is essentially how do you get to get your advice? in front of them, assuming you can do it promptly, ⁓ and convince them to consider it seriously, but live that make make them I'm sorry, let them make the decisions, which is what they have to do. so we'll talk about when we get to that point. But ⁓ that's the there are things they need like this that you really have to be able to deliver or avoid, so to speak, sometimes, so you can get to the heart of the things that are going on.

~00:24:20

Jason

Right. That's helpful.

00:24:32

Jason

Yeah, yeah. Very hopeful. what I'm also hearing you say, or what I picked up as you were talking is this reminder that, when a leader or an executive is humble enough to ask us for help, that creates a unique and important opportunity. and so I think we have to be mindful of, we're given shots and when we're given them, we need to be prepared. And that's one of the things I really love about, your seven disciplines here is so, just like in ⁓ athletics, right? You want to train, practice, and be disciplined so that when your number is literally called, you're ready to go and make the impression. And I think what a lot of times we might do in the stress and busyness of our careers and and personal life is

We aspire for something to happen. We aspire for the phone call to to ring or we have the opportunity to be requested, but then we haven't gone through the disciplines of preparing to be that trusted advisor. ⁓ you have any thoughts to share about that?

00:25:28

Jim

I do. you know, the interesting thing the about this is is again shifting the focus away from our profession and learning about who these people are. one of the prerequisites to to to be in the environment that you want to be in is that you learn about leaders. You study leadership. To be prepared for these people, you have to know how they think and what they do. We're in a kind of a peculiar time right now.

⁓ often quite often there's there's somebody out there who's really doing super caliphragic work in the business community, and we have models to think of and look at. but we you you also have to kind of dig them up. and so you have to get in the habit of of with this preparation that would be being talked about is understanding how leaders think, how leaders make decisions.

And look for leaders that you really support and idolize for that matter. and study what they do and use them as examples with the people you're trying to convince in these sort of short time frame circumstances. but understanding who managers and leaders are and how they think is a key ingredient to to be that's what you're preparing for basically when you try as you gave this advice before and a few minutes ago.

00:26:41

Jason

Yeah, I absolutely agree. Absolutely agree with that. Okay, so we we want to work through some of these disciplines. we may have worked ahead a little bit here. So we have five outline that we were expecting to cover. and I know we've probably promised anecdotally maybe some additional things for our audience. So we'll do our best to get through these today. but ⁓ proven framework for influencing leaders. do you think we covered that already?

00:27:05

Jim

Well, there's you know, all of these are somewhat complicated and somewhat interesting to talk about. so ⁓ when we when you talk about techniques for being successful in this environment, there are certain things that really I was starting to, for example, when I when I'm talking to you about what these people expect from you. the the let me just continue the list because is is apropos of what you say.

The next on my list of of items that they really want when they're on that phone with you is they expect suggestions and ideas ⁓ quickly, like while you're talking to them. ⁓ and what's it's hard for most of us because we're so we're so distant from these areas in the company, most of us. Yeah, yeah, I'm always a bit amused when people start talking about being in C suite.

But I can tell immediately that they've probably never been there except for the boss's birthday and retirement. ⁓ there are things you have to think about that are really helpful. They ⁓ besides information on the spot, I they expect you to say things that matter. They they really, you know, we're supposed to be knowledgeable about what's going on in the business, what's going on in the community, those sorts of things. And and quite often, because they in a way don't respect communication the way they use it. we have to talk about things that they're concerned about in the community, learn more about what's concerns what's what's on their minds, you know, and what the specific nature of the help is they're looking for. And I think most of all, you have to say things that they don't know. the one executive in every organization

Who has a pipeline to just about everything in the business is the boss. And one of the things that can make you a successful advisor is to get into those pipelines, listen to mouth things, and be able to provide information that the boss hasn't heard. the the chairman of the general electors electorate, he was the ⁓ chairman for I think f like 40 years, 20 years as president and 20 years as chairman of the board.

when he was retired, ⁓ they really had quite a bit of news about it, indeed, because he built as one of the biggest fanciest companies in this history of the America. And one reporter asked him, you know, what is it that that really, didn't like about being the chairman of this huge organization? And he answered instantly, instantly, being the last to know. You have to recognize that the higher you are in the organization.

The more filtered the information is that you get. the work that we do, you know, we can submit, we can submit a nice folder, even a notebook with tabs, going forward. But by the time it gets to the the head of the company, he it's a there's a one-page summary of about you know 250 words. There is a lot they don't know. and so one of the things to think about is.

What are the things that we know about that they should know about going forward and make that a routine part of your contact with these people? it's very interesting because in serious situations like I'm dealing in, there are always leakers. And the biggest leaker is the CEO himself, generally herself. Why? They know all the reporters that cover the business and the other writers that cover it.

They have relationship with many of them, and these people talk. Right. And instead of us. and and the second biggest leaker, by the way, happens to be the chief chief outside council. it's just part of their job to manipulate the story out there, and you never want to talk to us about this. ⁓ talk if we have time we'll talk about that. But that's a whole subject in itself working with legal services in these kinds of circ circumstances. It's a whole different new world than we're used to. Right. But you know, it gets back to as we we started talking. What are the kinds of skills you have to have ⁓ to to to essentially enter this arena and progress in this arena?

00:30:54

Jason

For sure. So ⁓ real quick, I want to just point out to our audience that if they want to follow along with the episode notes and links to the resources that we're talking about, the episode notes are going to be available at on top of P R ⁓ slash James dash L-U-K-A-S-Z-E-W S K I. And ⁓ that way they can quickly and easily find ⁓ this episode.

What I'm gonna also do as a courtesy to our audience is make it available at on topa slash J E L. So J E L. That way they've got a little bit of a shorter shortcut there in case ⁓ they didn't have a chance to capture the correct spelling of your last name. So on top of PR.com slash J E L will give you a shortcut to go directly to the episode notes where we're not only going to ⁓ provide anyna transcript of this conversation as well as a summary of it and some key key learnings from it. We're also gonna give ⁓ a complimentary handbook, a practical toolkit for strategic advisors from Jim, as well as a link to purchase his new book or pre-order if you're listening to this ⁓ as an early edition, ⁓ his new book, Influencing Leaders, The Seven Disciplines of the Trusted Strategic Advisor. ⁓ Jim, when does the book come out officially.

00:32:17

Jim

it'll be in in book stores on the eleventh of August, we're assured by the publicers.

00:32:22

Jason

Okay. Okay. So the relatively timely. So someone might be listening to this just in time to have it be top of mind. We're also gonna include a link in the episode notes to sign up for your savvy thinking newsletter, as well as a link to get connected with you on LinkedIn. So lots of ways that we can get connected with you. ⁓ and certainly ways that people can reach you if they have follow up questions, especially after they check out the book and download the complimentary handbook that we're offering. Jim, as as we're I know we could talk probably for hours, but as we do start wrapping up here shortly, what were some of the other items you wanted to make sure we got addressed today to our audience?

00:33:01

Jim

Two things. One is, and I apologize, but this is a bit of a commercial, but you're giving sources. I've just launched an a in a site in artificial intelligence site, and you want to write this down if you can. it's crisisguru.ai. Crisisguru one word dot ai. And I've been doing these programs and writing for, you know, over fifty years. Right. And have a son who is a brilliant guy with AI. And he has j he has created a a website, which is actually called Ask Jim. and he's gathered back all of the things that he could that had written, spoken, broadcast, whatever. it turns out it's about two and a half million words. But it's all there at at crisisguru.dot AI and there's a nice bot there and you ask a question like you do in these sites. You can ask anything and of a public relations nature because my career has been very broad over the years. and I probably said something, written something, whatever, and ⁓ it will easily and and quite accurately gather this information which is astounding to me actually. Yes. But it's up and working now and you'll see more you'll see some ads for this in various communications journals one of these days. But ⁓ crisisguru.ai, you'll you'll be amazed.

00:34:23

Jason

I'm really glad you brought that up because I intended to bring that up earlier and I forgot. But yes, I'm excited to use this resource, crisisguru.ai. And thank you to you and your son for making that available to everyone and so that ⁓ you can share all these insights that you've developed over the years.

00:34:41

Jim

I've always think of it as sort of my legacy. I'd I've given all this stuff away my entire career anyway, but this is a really cool way to to sort of have some access. But to your question, one of the most important things I want to talk about and you want to know about is, you know, how do how do you what's the how do you change their mind? you how do you give them advice they're actually going to use? And many, many years ago, ⁓ I we haven't got time for the whole story, but many I I was in I was watching a sales operation for a product that failed. But they had hired this really cool company to teach them how to sell. And what happened was they they developed a a a systematic way of thinking about and presenting information which I use and teach to this day and I call it the three-minute drill. Okay. I first published this I think about 35 years ago. But it's a six-step process that I guarantee you will change the way you have a relationship with people who are important, no matter what your level is. And it it it goes you get it as we go through the process. The first step, and the first step this is about getting their attention. So often, their life is different than ours. They go from meeting to meeting, decision to decisions, decisions. We go project to project to project. It's a different kind of thinking. So you have to introduce what you want to talk about. I call it the three-minute drill.

Because ultimately the segments I'm gonna give you are divided into s into sixty word chunks, so that you're actually giving a systematic presentation of your information. But the first thing you have to do is to introduce it so their minds are with you. If what often happens is you walk in and birth these things out 'cause you're there, they figure that out what you're talking about, maybe even who you are, about the time you have to go. So you wanna present prevent that. First step, sixty words talk about what it's about. The second the the second step ⁓ is the explanation step, which is in essence in sixty words again, but it's why are why are we here? What is this? What is this about? What is the impact? No, what what problem are we trying to solve or contribute information to?

00:36:53

Jason

So like what's the objective, what's the goal, what's the rationale, what's the agenda?

00:36:58

Jim

Exactly. Okay. and and the and the why. the third the third element, the third step is what I call the goal step. G-O-A-L. That's another sixty words. And the reason you have to talk about the goal is because that these executives are on this kind of a time clock that moves very quickly. They wanna know what is this about? What's the answer? You wanna you wanna give them a you know a a notebook with the tabs in it, they want know.

This minute, what's going on? Right. So you have to say, here's where we're generally headed, or these are the target ideas or the the concepts that we're working on to get to the next step. Okay. 60 words. The fourth step is the most important step. That's the options step. Rather than offering a series of conclusions and suggestions and recommendations, you know, frame them essentially as options from which they can choose because it's their bus.

Mm-hmm. What they're gonna do. And there are three options. And you wanna keep it to three. We we have this habit of you know, we got ten options. Yeah. Three is plenty, believe me.

00:38:03

Jason

Well and and behavioral scientists affirm that you give people more than three, maybe three is ideal, two to four is the appropriate range. Anything more than that, they get overwhelmed and fatigued.

00:38:15

Jim

Mm-hmm. Then anyway, you get it, you lost. Anyway, see here's here are the three. Okay. The first one is doing nothing. We hate that because we're not that is not what we do. That is not who we are. We believe in doing something for everything. However, it is a very legitimate strategic concern. I call it the zero percent solution. And I guarantee if this is a serious matter and you fail to mention doing nothing.

If the lawyer hears about it, you will do nothing for some time. If the boss hears about it, you'll probably do nothing for some time. I always want to talk about this first. Because doing nothing, as we all know, costs there are big costs and big dangers in doing nothing. But ⁓ those nerve tools never get considered if the the the people that run the place have their they they want to wait and see what if anything's gonna happen, period. So that's something I generally bring up first. The second is what I is is what I call the hundred percent solution doing something, okay? Whatever it happens to be. Again, remember these are these are these are options you're recommending for them to decide about. Okay. And the third option is I call it doing something more, the hundred and twenty four percent 124% solution. I mean this is this you have to remember one of the things that frustrates us about people who run things is how they make decisions.

And I'll give you a little secret. It's been studied a lot. You walk in, you lay out your ideas, and and the the the boss says, Well, sounds interesting. You know, I'll get back to you. By the time you've closed the door behind you, he's decided. Every time. They decided that a few seconds always. And you know, it gets to the point sometimes where you're walking down the hall and he's coming towards you, and you notice he ducks into the room so he doesn't have to talk to you.

He's already made his decision. this is a just a quick sidebar, but I I always give ideas essentially with a 10-day rule. If they don't make additions to do something about it in 10 days, whatever it is, I forget about it and look at something else to do. We're the one profession that throws ideas in the ash can every single day. Pick another one out of there and work on that. Probably the most grindy thing of senior practitioners is the reason they the reason they hung around is because they like the people, they like the boss, they like the rest of it. but they still aren't going to change their mind on things. But I'm I digress. All right. That this the option step is the most point. You get a you get ⁓ 120 words for this in a full minute to make your proposition of the three options. And rem remember these are options. They may choose something else, but here's the benefit. Anybody who can offer three perspectives or useful concepts about any problem the boss is facing is a valuable person. It will get you called back. Not because you were nice, not because he said you had nice kids, not because you fish in the same lake, but because you were able to give him or her these options to think about. Remember the guy at the window who said they made things up? That's what I'm talking about. That's a terrific hole that we can feel because we're good at that.

And this is the area where we want to put those ideation things to work. But there's a couple things to remember. Step five. If you do that, the very first question you're going to be asked by the boss is, well, you know, hey, you if you were me, you know, you can use the company government, not the plan. ⁓ what would you do? And so many times I've heard good advice kicked in the back because the person said, That's a great question, boss. I hadn't thought about that. Let me think about that.

If you do that, you're leaving the room. If you're leaving the room, you're leaving the decision cycle. No, choose before you make the recommendation. Pick one of them. And again, just 60 words, be ready for it. And then they're gonna say to you, or some of them will in the group, why did you pick that one? Why did you pick one over three or two over one? You have to answer for that. The sixth step is justification. Be ready to defend what you talked about. But

Useful, usually it's interesting if you do these five steps routinely for everything. And let me step aside for a minute and say, you know, you want to solve a PAMI problem? This is the way to do it. You've got a problem with a neighbor, this is the way to do it. Give them options to consider so we're doing it in a positive, constructive way, whether or not they choose what you talk about. The value you present is here's a person.

Who thinks important things about me, and he's not already mad at me because you know I decided to do something else. It's their bus. It's their bus. Right. Okay. So that's that's the six-step process. And it's it's it's extraordinarily powerful. But just keep in mind, we've talked about being prepared. You know, be ready. Get in the habit of of approaching every problem, every issue, every question with three options. So you're always ready in a moment's notice to take an idea that that is just laid on the table in front of you and divide it up into three productive parts. It's very interesting and important.

00:43:36

Jason

So thinking about the three options, right? ⁓ do you recommend you proactively and preemptively point to which one you recommend when you're going through the three, or do you wait for them to ask?

00:43:47

Jim

Actually I I I don't I don't wait for for anything in my business. You can't wait. ⁓ they they wanna know. They expect you to know, they're paying you big bucks to know. So I generally get right on it and say if I you know, if I were you and I I don't need the company plane, ⁓ this is what I do. Right. Right. ⁓ it's very helpful for them. And and these people run things and make big decisions.

00:43:52

Jason

Exactly.

00:44:11

Jim

That it doesn't bother them that you suggest something that they're gonna say no to. They say no to us all the they know to us all the time. But here's the way this is so productive and has such a d an incredibly positive impact on these important people.

00:44:17

Jason

Sure. Tell me this. So what if the person who is being asked for the advice? let's just say they have, or how do you say you you said don't don't say that's a good question, let me think back, let me think about it, or what I teach my team to say often is, you know, let me check with the team and get back to you so they're not making a decision under duress. So what happens when they're in an environment where maybe they don't have the autonomy, the authority or the full insight to, you know, answer the question or make a commitment. Maybe it's a financial commitment or a resource commitment. How would you recommend they handle it then? because you don't want to lose that window of time for a decision to be made.

00:45:01

Jim

Well, I mean, I've given you the the secret, which is get in the habit of looking at these issues, all of them from the standpoint of, if the boss walked in today, this second, what what would I recommend that he do in certain circumstances or in in general or whatever, you know, be ready for this. You have to train yourself. It's one thing to say, what do you do and how do you do it? But you condition yourself to do this and what you're gonna find is. When you when you get this positive reaction, might not be positive at first, but that's okay. No, some so you're gonna get this phone call in the afternoon and then when when the the boss says, I I'm sorry, I really wasn't listening. What was the third thing you recommended? Yeah, which I also think, i if you talk about four hundred and fifty words three minutes, it fits on one side of one sheet of paper. Right. And ready have it with you and ready behind.

00:45:47

Jason

That's so important.

00:45:52

Jim

Yeah, to leave it behind. it you know, 'cause they're busy. This is they do this every day. They're making these decisions. That's what they do.

00:45:59

Jason

I like that. So I thought I had a follow-up question, Jim. I'm sorry if I forgot it here.

I I was just gonna mention I you know, I know some people don't like or understand always sports analogies, but you know, when I was very young in sports, or not young, but I was taught when you're in the field, always be thinking, what will I do when the ball comes to me? and so kind of the same thing is what we're describing here is like always be prepared and always be thinking what's how what's next and what am how am I gonna react to it?

00:46:27

Jim

Here's the difference. Here's the difference. Okay. The question you're asking yourself is what's the boss going to do when the ball arrives at his desk? That's what you're there for. Yeah. It is a big difference, but it's a good example. But you gotta remember the targets change if you want to be in this position with these people. Everything is about them. Everything is about them. And you have to look at it from that perspective. So I I like the concept.

But you gotta remember, in this case, is if it's go heading for the the boss's head, am I gonna run over and catch it so we get before it gets hit? That's kind of what you're doing. It's interesting. this whole business of influence, which we don't have time to talk about, but's in the book, really is about how do you have influence? How do you how are you get how do you get accepted in these these rarefied environments?

And there is there is really a lot to learn about that. and you're gonna hear a lot more about it because the the idea of of being ⁓ influential is it's it i saw some ⁓ a word velocity chart the other day, and it's one of the fastest the fastest utilized words in our English language right now, the idea of being being this this ⁓ advisor in this this is sub the circumstance.

00:47:37

Jason

Yeah. Well, we have completely ran out of time for our recording. I've really enjoyed this. if the opportunity presents itself, we'll look to have you back on the show and we can pick up the conversation from here, Jim.

00:47:48

Jim

Right. Thank you so much. I love being here. Thank you so much. Good luck to all of you. And go to ask me a question on on the

00:47:53

Jason

Yeah, thank you, Jim. We appreciate that.

Yeah. Yeah. Everybody go check out crisisguru.ai. And also, ⁓ what we want you to do, and it'll s this'll be in the episode notes, but we will want you to email ⁓ J E L at E911 dot com with the subject line of top T O P as an on top of PR.

And that's how you will receive your complimentary handbook for a practical toolkit for strategic advisors. And then also we want you to check out Jim's new book, Influencing Leaders: The Seven Disciplines of the Trusted Strategic Advisor. Jim, this has been a real pleasure. Thank you so much for participating here. for our audience who is ⁓ enjoying this episode, please take a moment.

And share this episode with a friend or colleague who you think might benefit from it. And if you want to, leave us an online review on your favorite platform. That's how we attract more audience and also attract top guests just like Jim to come on and share their smarts with you. So with that said, this is Jason Mudd from Axia Public Relations signing off and wishing you the best as we work to help you stay on top of PR.