In this episode, Ron Culp joins host Jason Mudd to discuss why business acumen now outweighs writing skills in PR hiring, the three stages of a corporate PR career, and five practical ways to build business acumen at any career stage.
Tune in to learn more!
Watch the episode here:
Meet our guest:
Our guest is Ron Culp, a professional-in-residence at DePaul University and a former corporate chief communications officer. He brings decades of experience across government, corporate communications, public relations agencies, and higher education, where he helps prepare the next generation of PR professionals.
5 things you’ll learn during the full episode:
- Three stages of corporate public relations
- Why business acumen has taken over writing skills as the top thing employers want
- Five practical ways students and young professionals can build business acumen
- Why understanding how your company makes money changes the decisions you make
- Why business acumen matters
Listen to the episode here:
Quotables
- "When what you're doing isn't having any impact on the business, you really have to question it. If you don't, you're gonna start being questioned." – Ron Culp
- "You just make better decisions if you have a sense of what the business is all about." – Ron Culp
- "Good writers are good thinkers, always has been the case, and good writers can be trained." – Ron Culp
- "If we can't figure out how they make money, then I'm not sure we can be the trusted strategic partner that we need to be." – Jason Mudd
If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to share it with a colleague or friend. You may also support us through Buy Me a Coffee or by leaving us a quick podcast review.
Resources
Guest’s contact info and resources:
- Ron Culp on LinkedIn
- Ron Culp's blog: culpwrit.com
- Ageism in the workplace: Hiring bias, careers, and the future of work
- How trusted strategic advisors influence leaders
Additional Resources:
- Marketing leaders are reframing reputation management as a revenue strategy
- Traditional PR doesn’t work anymore
- How to turn social and reputation management into a revenue operating system
- Listen to more episodes of the On Top of PR with Jason Mudd podcast
- Find out more about Axia Public Relations
If you like this episode, you're going to love this:
- How public relations changes business outcomes
- How communications professionals shape business success
- Maximizing Agency Partnerships with Mark Riggs
Recorded: August, 2026
About your host Jason Mudd
Jason Mudd is a nationally recognized public relations expert featured by CNN, Entrepreneur, Forbes, NPR, The New York Times, PRWeek, and The Wall Street Journal.
Named North America’s top PR leader by the World Communication Forum, he serves as Partner of Axia Public Relations — recognized by Forbes as one of America’s Best PR Agencies.
Jason has advised some of the country’s most admired and fastest-growing companies, leading campaigns for iconic brands including American Airlines, Budweiser, Dave & Buster’s, GE, H&R Block, Hilton, HP, Miller Lite, New York Life, Pizza Hut, Southern Comfort, and Verizon.
He’s also a professional public speaker, accredited PR practitioner, published author, entrepreneur, and host of On Top of PR with Jason Mudd — a podcast ranked among the top 2.5% globally by Listen Notes and a top 100 marketing podcast on Apple Podcasts. His guests have included leaders from Disney, Microsoft, Southwest Airlines, and Wells Fargo. Learn more about Jason at https://www.axiapr.com/team/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
00:00:00 - 00:00:15
Ron Culp
When what you're doing isn't having any impact on the business, you really have to question it. If you don't, you're gonna start being questioned.
00:00:15 - 00:00:46
Jason Mudd
Hello, and welcome to On Top of PR. I'm your host Jason Mudd with Axia Public Relations. Today I'm joined by Ron Culp, and he brings decades of experience across government, corporate communication, public relations agencies, and higher education. He now serves as a professional in residence for DePaul University's award-winning public relations program, where he helps prepare the next generation of public relations practitioners. Ron, welcome to On Top of PR.
00:00:46 - 00:00:48
Ron Culp
It's great to be here, Jason. Good to see you.
00:00:48 - 00:01:26
Jason Mudd
I'm glad to be here. I'm glad you're here. I was able and fortunate to get accredited pretty early in my career, back when you had to have at least five years of full-time experience. And it was one of the most rewarding professional development experiences I ever had, because I learned so much more about being a strategist, so much more about public relations measurement and planning and strategy but also the circle of professional peer contacts and connections and friends I made during that process. So it's a real honor for me to meet you and have you here on our show as we talk about why business acumen is critical for public relations professionals today.
00:01:26 - 00:01:28
Ron Culp
Well, let's get rolling. I love the topic.
00:01:28 - 00:01:31
Jason Mudd
Excellent. Well, real quick how many books have you written in your career?
00:01:31 - 00:01:57
Ron Culp
So far I think it's five or six. Some I don't count because they were the equivalent of books, but when they went online way back when, they probably would have qualified as a book because they had a lot of pages. But unless I see it in print, and students are reading it in the classroom or now they're all reading it digitally I don't really consider it a textbook. Years ago, unless it was in print, I didn't consider it a textbook.
00:01:57 - 00:03:18
Jason Mudd
Gotcha, gotcha. Okay, well good I'm excited about today's topic: business acumen. It's critical for the public relations professional; probably always has been, but especially today. I'll start with a quick anecdote. A new chief communications officer came in to one of my clients and inherited an internal team. His immediate reaction was, this team is bloated, there are too many people here. So one of the first things he did was interview each employee and ask them three questions: What do we do? How do we make money as a company? And how do you impact that? He said he immediately had a list of those who got it and those who didn't, and that's how he began to groom down his team, because he thought the team was inflated in the moment. That's always stood out to me one, because I wouldn't want to be the person who shows up to the meeting and doesn't understand the business side of things. And as we advise clients, Ron, we're always thinking about their business and how we get familiar with it quickly. If we can't figure out how they make money, I'm not sure we can be the trusted strategic partner we need to be. So coming into this conversation, you have in mind three stages of corporate public relations. That's where I'd like to get started.
00:03:18 - 00:04:37
Ron Culp
Well, that was a great opening, Jason, because so many especially young professionals, and some senior haven't yet mastered the answer to any of those three key questions, and their careers are usually short-lived. So that's why this is such an important topic. When I started out after being in journalism, I got into PR. I got hired because I was a good writer, or I thought I was, and obviously the employer did too. So it was all about, can you write this and present our case to our various stakeholders. I started moving through my career and worked for four different corporations, all in different industries. When I finally made the big time and became a chief communications officer, I was invited into the Page Society. During one of the Page Society annual meetings, I was seated next to Harold Burson, who was kind of the legend of public relations still is in my mind a wonderful man who unfortunately isn't with us anymore, but we became fairly close and he became kind of a mentor. He congratulated me on my new job and said, so you've advanced to the third stage of your career. And I'm like, what did I not know about—
00:04:37 - 00:04:38
Jason Mudd
Mm.
00:04:38 - 00:04:42
Ron Culp
First of all, thank you, but I don't know what the other two stages I must have missed are.
00:04:42 - 00:04:43
Jason Mudd
Mm-hmm. Right.
00:04:43 - 00:05:41
Ron Culp
And he said this stuck with me stage one as a PR person, which is how I was hired, is management essentially says: okay, help me. How do I say it? How do I say it? In other words, you're sitting at your typewriter writing, to the best of your knowledge based on all the information you've been fed, information to answer that question. Then it goes through various iterations of editing. The second stage, Harold said, is when you're asked by management, what do I say? Now you're getting really close to the sweet spot in a public relations career, because that says they're relying on you for how you help them say what needs to be said to those stakeholders.
00:05:41 - 00:05:42
Jason Mudd
Mm-hmm.
00:05:42 - 00:06:03
Ron Culp
And he said, now you're entering the third stage, and you remember this: what do I do? You have to be prepared for a response okay, here's a big opportunity, a crisis, or whatever it is and when management asks you, what do I do, what do you recommend that we—
00:06:03 - 00:06:03
Jason Mudd
Mm-hmm.
00:06:03 - 00:06:36
Ron Culp
—do? You better be able to answer, and/or put together a response, in a way that fully understands what that business is all about and its key issues how it makes money, and everything else that goes into the mix to help management understand and guide them on what they should be doing. So that stuck with me, and I share it with classes and others as wise advice. It came from Harold Burson. I didn't invent it.
00:06:36 - 00:06:50
Jason Mudd
Yeah, I like that. Let me try to assign a term to each one maybe the first is a tactician, the second a strategist, and the third an advisor or counselor. Would you agree with that?
00:06:50 - 00:07:03
Ron Culp
Yeah as Matt Ragas and I describe in two of our books, that stage is that coveted seat at the table—
00:07:03 - 00:07:04
Jason Mudd
Mm-hmm.
00:07:04 - 00:07:58
Ron Culp
—or getting into the room where it happens. Stage three in the PR world is when you're told you've arrived. My CEO also helped underscore that point. He called me in we were discussing an issue and said, time out, I know all that background. I want to know what you think we should do. I hired you at this elevated level to understand what we should be doing, not to summarize what everyone else would do and the history of the thing. I need to get right to the business objectives we're trying to achieve. That's why I need a communications person who gives me the honest truth and a point of view. And what should we do?
00:07:58 - 00:08:52
Jason Mudd
Yeah, and I like that term point of view I think that's really important. I saw a piece of work being done for the CEO of one of our client organizations, and I was asked to glance at it. The practitioner had put together a lot of reporting on the topic background. I thought, the news outlet doesn't need us reporting the story they're already covering; they need us to give commentary on it, and they've clearly done more digging into it than we had. So that was kind of a waste of time treating it like the journalist wanted us to report their news story, when they wanted commentary. That prevented us from getting quoted on something the client didn't even know enough about, and kept us in our lane. I see a similarity there. I hate to think you've got to be in the Page Society to be considered to have a seat at the table, though.
00:08:52 - 00:09:04
Ron Culp
No, absolutely not. There are only about 800 members of the Page Society and at the time Harold and I had that discussion, they were just talking about having reached 200 members. So we were a very small group that—
00:09:04 - 00:09:07
Jason Mudd
Yeah, okay, right.
00:09:07 - 00:09:17
Ron Culp
—by the way, no one had ever heard of, except Page members. It's gotten bigger now colleges know about it and talk about it. But no, this applies to everyone.
00:09:17 - 00:09:24
Jason Mudd
Yeah, it's been on my aspiration list for decades. Maybe one day I'll be in that club with you. But I'm—
00:09:24 - 00:09:25
Ron Culp
You should be.
00:09:25 - 00:09:40
Jason Mudd
Yeah, thank you I appreciate that. All right. So the second thing we want to cover is how what employers want has shifted from writing skills to business acumen. Tell me more about your thinking on that.
00:09:40 - 00:10:42
Ron Culp
Yeah being a writer, when I first got my first management job at Eli Lilly, I was totally focused on writing. If you had that skill set, you got an interview. If you worked for a newspaper, you got an interview and had good chances of being hired, because good writers are good thinkers always has been the case and good writers can be trained and churn out material faster. They're journalists, they ask good questions all very important. But because they've been so laser-focused as reporters, maybe covering school boards and government and society meetings in town, their view is so broad that they haven't had a chance to dig deep into business issues unless they're a business reporter, and even some of them haven't, because—
00:10:42 - 00:10:44
Jason Mudd
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
00:10:44 - 00:12:04
Ron Culp
—a lot of business reporters when I started out were placed there right out of school, or maybe with a couple years of experience. So for our first book, Business Essentials, that Matt Ragas and I did about fifteen years ago we interviewed a large number of chief communications officers and senior leaders of the profession, both agency heads and CCOs. He put together a panel of some 40 that he went back and forth with, trying to determine what they really wanted from the people they hire. Within a couple of years, it went from journalism being number one and business number two, to all of a sudden their first answer being, I want somebody who understands my business and can communicate my business. We talked about the fact they really want you to understand their markets, how they make money, want you to read a balance sheet, and help write an annual report. While I—
00:12:04 - 00:12:05
Jason Mudd
Yeah.
00:12:05 - 00:12:24
Ron Culp
—was at Lilly, the guy who used to write the annual report quit a few months before it had to be printed. My boss said, uh-oh, well, Ron's a journalist, let him write the annual report. It actually started with an earnings release, and I honestly had to ask the investor relations guy what earnings were.
00:12:24 - 00:12:24
Jason Mudd
Right.
00:12:24 - 00:12:48
Ron Culp
I was really one of those naive reporters I was telling you about. He walked me through the process, and with his help Bob Graper, God love him we wrote a good earnings release. It must have been good, because the CEO asked my boss who wrote it since Russ had left the company. My boss said, the—
00:12:48 - 00:12:48
Jason Mudd
Mm-hmm.
00:12:48 - 00:12:54
Ron Culp
—new guy did. And the CEO said, well, I think we're going to put him in charge of financial communications.
00:12:54 - 00:13:00
Jason Mudd
Okay. You didn't love that, huh?
00:13:00 - 00:13:08
Ron Culp
No but now I tell anyone, you're crazy not to take it, because it's had the biggest impact on all my corporate jobs since. But—
00:13:08 - 00:13:09
Jason Mudd
Right.
00:13:09 - 00:13:16
Ron Culp
—then I was in charge of the annual report, and it was definitely a crash course in business.
00:13:16 - 00:13:17
Jason Mudd
Right.
00:13:17 - 00:13:26
Ron Culp
I wish I knew then what I'd now tell my students before they face a similar situation, because I was a deer in headlights, and it—
00:13:26 - 00:13:27
Jason Mudd
Mm-hmm.
00:13:27 - 00:13:59
Ron Culp
—took, thank God, the IR person taking me under his wing. I learned a lot, and we produced seven amazing annual reports while I was there. I surrounded myself one of my first hires was a good financial writer. That went on my resume, and it became significant in every job I had since financial communications has been a component of every corporate role, and I've had responsibility for the annual report at all four companies.
00:13:59 - 00:14:07
Jason Mudd
Hmm. Around what year did you see employers shift the emphasis from journalism to business?
00:14:07 - 00:14:17
Ron Culp
It really clicked in we started feeling it about eighteen years ago; fifteen years ago is where we actually saw the shift in our surveying—
00:14:17 - 00:14:18
Jason Mudd
Mm-hmm.
00:14:18 - 00:15:24
Ron Culp
—all of a sudden journalism was just barely outpacing business. But business came right up. By the time we wrote Business Essentials, fifteen years ago, that was the first year it slightly outpaced journalism. Today there's no other background as strong as business acumen in hiring decisions for communicators and it's not just communicators anymore. It's HR talent. Try to get a job in marketing people say, I'm really good at promoting products, but it's not about that. It's about how what you do drives product sales. And, importantly, which a lot of young people don't think about, profits and why profits matter, or you wouldn't have your job.
00:15:24 - 00:16:43
Jason Mudd
Right, that's right, exactly. That reminds me when I get the chance to speak in front of colleagues and business associations as a professional speaker, I really love speaking to students. The message I hammer home is: you've got to be a great writer, you've got to understand business, and you've got to understand strategy. If you bring those three things to the table, I'll hire you immediately, because the people to your left and right don't understand those things. Even if you think you're an excellent writer today, you could be so much better go find outlets, whether volunteer work or the campus newspaper, to write more, learn more about strategy, and work through case studies. And understand business, leadership, and culture what a profit-and-loss statement is, what a balance sheet is so you can speak intelligently to business people. If you don't get it, they're not going to trust you as much as they'd like. If they say something simple like "P&L" and you're like, what's P&L that doesn't sound very good. That reminds me we did an episode earlier this year with James Lukaszewski. I don't know if you know him, but—
00:16:43 - 00:16:44
Ron Culp
Absolutely. Good friend.
00:16:44 - 00:17:16
Jason Mudd
Yeah I'll put a link to that episode in the notes, because I'm seeing crossover with what we're talking about, how to be a trusted advisor. Good episode for people to tune into alongside this one. So we talked about how what employers want has shifted. Do you think that's reflective of there being fewer journalists available to hire, or more of a focus on business acumen being desirable for hires?
00:17:16 - 00:17:22
Ron Culp
Well, when I started out, journalists outnumbered public relations professionals about twenty—
00:17:22 - 00:17:22
Jason Mudd
Right.
00:17:22 - 00:17:28
Ron Culp
—to one. Today it's flipped. It's the other way around. Sadly, we need—
00:17:28 - 00:17:29
Jason Mudd
Hm, yeah.
00:17:29 - 00:17:56
Ron Culp
—more good journalists. There's been such a quantum shift, and I love journalists being hired into PR jobs, because they're curious, they ask good questions. Many important people, including CEOs I've worked for, have said, you know why I like you? You're curious.
00:17:56 - 00:17:58
Jason Mudd
Some CEOs that would drive crazy, though.
00:17:58 - 00:18:46
Ron Culp
Yeah, and I do I ask so many questions, and they say, you're genuinely curious. I've had technology clients, a fertilizer client, someone who makes paper towels and toilet paper I'm just fascinated by the whole process of all of it. Too many young people come in with a myopic view of what they're going to bring to the table and haven't broadened their thinking. A good journalist especially one who's covered multiple industries, which is what I was doing when I first started in media, shifting hats all the time I long for more good journalists to serve as part of the pipeline. Sadly, that doesn't exist anymore.
00:18:46 - 00:18:57
Jason Mudd
Twenty-to-one twenty journalists to every PR pro would've been an incredible time to work in the profession, because I haven't seen those numbers. But yeah—
00:18:57 - 00:18:57
Ron Culp
No, no.
00:18:57 - 00:19:09
Jason Mudd
The newest numbers instead of 20 journalists to every one PR pro show one journalist to every seven public relations professionals. But what I like to tell people is—
00:19:09 - 00:19:16
Ron Culp
That's way off, by the way, because so many public relations people have other titles.
00:19:16 - 00:20:15
Jason Mudd
Well, that's exactly what I was going to say PR is a very broad term for what we do. Through my APR experience, which we mentioned earlier, I met many practitioners in employee communications and other areas I hadn't realized were a real, dedicated thing because at the organizations I worked at, we'd wing some employee communications when HR or leadership asked for help, but it wasn't our primary job. Meeting people who've never pitched a journalist in their life, yet are seasoned PR practitioners, was honestly mind-blowing to me.
00:20:15 - 00:20:26
Ron Culp
Right when I was at Sears, we had about 60 different agencies when I joined; every brand had its own agency, and—
00:20:26 - 00:20:27
Jason Mudd
Mm-hmm.
00:20:27 - 00:21:06
Ron Culp
—my boss and I were losing our minds over it. So he said, let's bring everyone who claims to do anything in communications or public relations together for a meeting, get them all on the same page, and I'll tell them our goal, how it serves our mission. We sent out the broad invitation I had about 69 people on my PR team at the time. When we walked into the auditorium that morning with the CEO, he said, who are all these people?
00:21:06 - 00:21:08
Jason Mudd
Mm.
00:21:08 - 00:21:11
Ron Culp
There were over 350 people in the room claiming to do PR. So—
00:21:11 - 00:21:14
Jason Mudd
Wow, right, right.
00:21:14 - 00:21:22
Ron Culp
—that's why I said these numbers are way skewed. He asked, who are all these people? And I said, therein lies our problem.
00:21:22 - 00:21:24
Jason Mudd
Right.
00:21:24 - 00:21:36
Ron Culp
I'll never forget that aha moment. By the way, most of those jobs were folded into our department or eliminated over the—
00:21:36 - 00:21:36
Jason Mudd
Yeah.
00:21:36 - 00:22:01
Ron Culp
—following year, and I got the budgets. We built a more targeted program that actually resulted in sales increases and good momentum with the company and our stakeholders. Those were the glory days of Sears, when people were actually buying our stock and our product, because we were reinventing the place a real turnaround situation, which was exciting.
00:22:01 - 00:22:33
Jason Mudd
That does sound exciting. That reminds me early in my career at Axia, we had a client, and as we got more entrenched in the organization, I felt like every VP had their own personal PR person to make sure their communications looked good. Then soon enough, directors started getting their own communications person too. It was like they were building their own personal brand within the enterprise, even if they were a VP of IT or something like that.
00:22:33 - 00:22:43
Ron Culp
We had similar stories including one where someone said, your number one mission is to get me on the cover of every trade publication possible. Well, that's going to sell—
00:22:43 - 00:22:45
Jason Mudd
Right.
00:22:45 - 00:22:49
Ron Culp
—a lot of men's underwear.
00:22:49 - 00:24:16
Jason Mudd
Right, exactly that's funny. You know, there was some research out of USC Annenberg I don't think they track this KPI anymore, but I always found it interesting. Roughly: the more W-2 full-time employees a company employs in public relations roles, the more outside agencies that organization also employs. On the surface, you'd think it'd be the opposite that managing PR in-house means less need to leverage outside agencies. But like any organism that continues to grow, it acquires more and keeps growing more. I always kept an eye on that stat, especially owning a PR agency myself. It seemed like the smaller the in-house team, the more resistant they'd be to bringing in an outside agency, worried their boss would wonder what they do. But as the organization gets bigger, it creates more needs and opportunities, and suddenly you have people in-house whose full-time job is managing outside agencies.
00:24:16 - 00:24:17
Ron Culp
Been there, done that.
00:24:17 - 00:24:52
Jason Mudd
Yeah, yeah. So we talked about how what employers want has shifted they want writing skills and business acumen, with more of a lean toward business acumen. Now let's talk about five practical ways students and young professionals can build their business acumen, and then bolt on what more experienced professionals can do. Let's start with the entry-level audience.
00:24:52 - 00:24:57
Ron Culp
Okay, I'll quickly go through five, and there may be a bonus one or two.
00:24:57 - 00:24:59
Jason Mudd
Okay, all right I like bonuses.
00:24:59 - 00:26:23
Ron Culp
First of all, expand your news diet. Young people say, news? They get news from Twitter and Facebook, but they're not really spending time and I tell them, if you do nothing else, go to page one of the Wall Street Journal every day, scan the "What's News" column, circle words you don't understand, and look them up. If you want to be taken seriously in business, you'd better understand how business media handles various corporations. I also tell people to read at least one influential business book a year yes, even with everything else you have to read, it's important. It can be something like a Michael Lewis book you read it like a novel, and it's all true, that's how exciting his stuff is. Circle things you don't understand. And follow influential business leaders with important thoughts. Some I follow closely everything they say and do like Jamie Dimon. He's been my hero for years. It—
00:26:23 - 00:26:25
Jason Mudd
Okay, okay.
00:26:25 - 00:26:28
Ron Culp
—used to be Howard Schultz, and then I stopped liking Starbucks. But it—
00:26:28 - 00:26:29
Jason Mudd
Ha.
00:26:29 - 00:26:44
Ron Culp
—is someone like Jamie Dimon. I immediately get alerts when he says something. His annual letter to shareholders is kind of the new Oracle-of-Omaha, Warren Buffett–type letter.
00:26:44 - 00:26:47
Jason Mudd
Yeah.
00:26:47 - 00:27:12
Ron Culp
It's full of important business thought you really need to read it. But I also follow Taylor Swift. Who would think Taylor Swift is a billionaire? She talks about it and gives her father credit for the business interest and savvy she's become in my opinion, an influential business leader. Then—
00:27:12 - 00:27:12
Jason Mudd
For sure.
00:27:12 - 00:27:21
Ron Culp
—to make it really easy, I say watch movies or TV shows that are both fun and informative, like Shark Tank. Love it—
00:27:21 - 00:27:22
Jason Mudd
Mm-hmm.
00:27:22 - 00:28:28
Ron Culp
—never miss an episode, they're great. Or go back and watch Moneyball if you haven't. Those movies do an incredible job of teaching you just by watching. Then, my fifth: pick a public company and follow it ideally one you really believe in or are passionate about for a year or two. For the longest time it was Target; before that, Starbucks. I'm no longer passionate about those brands, so now I'm back to banking a lot of people think that's boring, but it's not. The financial community is where some of the most action is happening right now. Pick a company, follow it, read their annual report, the letter to shareholders, and listen to the annual earnings call.
00:28:28 - 00:28:29
Jason Mudd
Right.
00:28:29 - 00:28:39
Ron Culp
You'll find these executives pretty candid and open about what's happening in their business. They say things you can look up and write down.
00:28:39 - 00:28:40
Jason Mudd
Mm-hmm.
00:28:40 - 00:29:24
Ron Culp
So, pick that company. For my bonus points: build a network inside the company. Everyone thinks networking means outside the organization that's important career-wise, too but inside the company, I made sure to build a network with legal, accounting, and especially the CFO. Take them to coffee, or bring coffee to their office since they're busy, and just have a chat: hey, I'm fairly new here, what do you do? I had a couple of interns do this when I was in the agency world, and I'll never forget it they knew what kind of coffee I liked and brought exactly that—
00:29:24 - 00:29:25
Jason Mudd
Mm-hmm.
00:29:25 - 00:30:01
Ron Culp
—and it was a good session. And finally one of my former students, Emma Gressor, created her own board of directors: people she relied upon. Sometimes terms expire, and maybe I'm no longer on her board, replaced by someone else, but she occasionally checks in with them, and they give great advice about what's going on in her business. She's had a meteoric career—
00:30:01 - 00:30:01
Jason Mudd
Mm.
00:30:01 - 00:30:15
Ron Culp
—as a young person in this profession, because she's so well networked and knows what's happening in the business world. Those are my five-plus things that come to mind.
00:30:15 - 00:31:44
Jason Mudd
Well, those are really cool I wrote down several of them. That reminds me, I love making sure my team listens to our clients' quarterly earnings calls regularly, because our PR messages have to align with the Wall Street and IR messages. Pulling direct quotes from those calls helps feed other content we're working on. And you remind me of a young woman doing something similar as a college student I wish I'd thought to do this myself. She looked at the city she wanted to live in, contacted the 20 largest employers there, and asked for a mentor at each of the 20 companies. By the time she graduated, she had an army of advocates looking out for her at companies more likely to hire her. One day, the CFO of our biggest client called and said, Jason, I want you to take this young woman to lunch she's interested in PR send me the bill. Of course I did everything he asked, except send him the bill, since I covered that myself. I met with her very impressive and told her I'd never heard of anyone doing something like that, and how impressive it was, something I wish I'd done. That sounds like what you're describing with the student creating her own board of directors.
00:31:44 - 00:31:57
Ron Culp
Big idea. I love what she did, and the fact that she pulled it off it's a delicate approach, because everyone is so stressed for time. But—
00:31:57 - 00:31:59
Jason Mudd
Right, right.
00:31:59 - 00:32:01
Ron Culp
I love her. That's very important.
00:32:01 - 00:32:07
Jason Mudd
Yeah, I totally agree. I'm curious have you gotten bored or disenchanted with Target and Starbucks?
00:32:07 - 00:32:25
Ron Culp
Starbucks I thought the quality failed. I used to own a coffee store back when I lived in Albany working for the government; I opened it because I was bored, ran it on the side, and it's celebrating its 50th anniversary this year, so we're going back for a celebration.
00:32:25 - 00:32:26
Jason Mudd
Cool.
00:32:26 - 00:32:43
Ron Culp
So I became a coffee snob a long time ago. I thought the product quality wasn't what I'd expect I didn't like the flavors. It's darker roast; sometimes I feel it tastes burned.
00:32:43 - 00:32:44
Jason Mudd
Mm-hmm.
00:32:44 - 00:33:02
Ron Culp
I'm very particular about roasting. People who follow me on Instagram see I'm constantly reviewing coffee roasters I discover, and I'll drive way out of my way. I'm going to one in northern Wisconsin on—
00:33:02 - 00:33:02
Jason Mudd
Okay.
00:33:02 - 00:33:06
Ron Culp
—Monday, because they have a special roasting technique.
00:33:06 - 00:33:07
Jason Mudd
Mm-hmm.
00:33:07 - 00:33:28
Ron Culp
I generally just highlight them I'm in search of the perfect cup of coffee. I'm close to having found it in Panama, but I look everywhere little mom-and-pop shops, all over because it's been fun, and they're all better than Starbucks. And—
00:33:28 - 00:33:29
Jason Mudd
Yeah, right.
00:33:29 - 00:34:17
Ron Culp
—Target like a lot of people, including customers, I used to go two or three times a week, and I haven't been there maybe once or twice in the past six months, because they've been going through a lot of pain trying to reorganize. They have a new CEO doing a really good job, with a talented PR team, so I hope they deliver on what they're promising, because it is and was a great company and a wonderful competitor to anyone in retail I want to get back to that place. When you're a little disappointed in a product and haven't bought anything recently, you shift to something you're really excited about that's why I'm back to Chase.
00:34:17 - 00:35:17
Jason Mudd
Gotcha, gotcha. Speaking of Target reminds me sometime around 2003 to 2007, maybe more like 2005 to 2006 Walmart was trying to be more like Target, and Target trying to be more like Walmart. At the end of the day, it's capitalism both were being a little greedy, wanting market share from each other. But people don't go to Walmart because they want it to be more like Target, and vice versa. I think that really hurt both brands, diluting their value and market position. Then the Great Recession hit, and almost every company that was experimenting went back to what they do best, and to figuring out how to generate more revenue quickly. So that, to me, was the beginning of the change you're describing with Target.
00:35:17 - 00:35:19
Ron Culp
Yep, absolutely. Spot on.
00:35:19 - 00:35:36
Jason Mudd
Okay those were five great practical ways students and young professionals can build business acumen. I took notes myself on things worth exploring. Is there anything you'd prescribe differently for senior professionals versus more junior ones?
00:35:36 - 00:35:40
Ron Culp
Well, many of the same things still apply, but—
00:35:40 - 00:35:41
Jason Mudd
Mm-hmm.
00:35:41 - 00:35:54
Ron Culp
—senior people, as they move up the ladder in corporate or agency positions, face very demanding jobs. Everyone thinks they don't have time for anything outside of work. So—
00:35:54 - 00:35:56
Jason Mudd
Right, right.
00:35:56 - 00:36:43
Ron Culp
—they ignore network building, don't go to events, don't know anyone and guess what happens? They eventually get fired, unfortunately. Then what do they do? They've also ignored their LinkedIn profile added no one, let it go outdated. So I say, you've got to continue networking and build a robust LinkedIn page. It's your brand today. As a demonstration in my classes, I take a stack of resumes, rip them up, and throw them in the air they're of no value. If you're going to get hired, it's through your network and/or found on LinkedIn. Every recruiter has gotten rid of their old files send them a resume, and they'll throw it away.
00:36:43 - 00:36:44
Jason Mudd
Right, yeah.
00:36:44 - 00:37:10
Ron Culp
They'll find you through high-paid services run behind the scenes today, not on their own computers it's LinkedIn. They match you up and know more about you, but if it's not on your LinkedIn profile, they'll never find you. So many people call me and say, I haven't talked to you in 20 years how can I help you? Yeah, exactly.
00:37:10 - 00:37:14
Jason Mudd
I know where this is going, right? Well—
00:37:14 - 00:37:17
Ron Culp
I'm sorry, I lost track. Okay, and—
00:37:17 - 00:37:17
Jason Mudd
Mm.
00:37:17 - 00:37:29
Ron Culp
—you get a little leery when it's always about what somebody wants. It's so much easier to just drop them a note through LinkedIn: saw this article, thought you'd be interested, thought of you, haven't talked—
00:37:29 - 00:37:30
Jason Mudd
Mm-hmm.
00:37:30 - 00:37:33
Ron Culp
—to you in a while. No strings attached, no ask.
00:37:33 - 00:37:34
Jason Mudd
Right, right.
00:37:34 - 00:38:38
Ron Culp
Those are the two things that really bother me because they're so easy to do it may take five extra minutes a day, and you've got to build your personal brand. And so many do nothing on social media not listening to podcasts, not on any of the major social channels, even though Twitter isn't as important as it used to be for business. You've got to find something that shows you're adept in what's going on socially. And of course, AI is something we're all tackling terribly exciting. Too many senior professionals say, I'm going to hire somebody to handle that for me. No you've got to figure out Claude on your own and have fun doing it. It may take an hour out of your day, but you'll be rewarded later, especially if, God forbid, you have to look for a job and they ask if you're familiar with AI you'd better be.
00:38:38 - 00:40:36
Jason Mudd
Right, yeah. We did another episode I'll link it in the notes with AARP about ageism in the workplace. I know that happens, but I also think sometimes it's because the individual doesn't know how to properly express their ability and willingness to use technology, and their eagerness to learn. Some people are naturally curious, like you and I seem to be, always wanting to learn the newest thing; others just aren't interested. When AI first came out, some people said, I'm against it, I think it's unethical, I'm not going to learn it and I'd think, good thing you own your own business, because the market's moving there with or without you. I'm spot on with you on LinkedIn for 20 years I've told people, don't send me your resume, send me a link to your updated LinkedIn. It shows me who you're connected to, how well connected you are, and your writing samples, since you're posting your own content. Every day I see profiles with typos in them. And it's in a consistent format, so I can find what I want instead of digging through a resume. We have an applicant tracking system where people apply online, and we say, upload your resume or give us your LinkedIn link. What I also like about LinkedIn is that people are less likely to lie or exaggerate their experience, since it's out there for everybody to see though I know that's not always true. Still, you'd hope for a little more accountability about putting inaccurate information on a LinkedIn profile.
00:40:36 - 00:40:56
Ron Culp
Yeah, better be. I need to go right back to what you opened with I was an early resistor of the internet. They tried to assign the intranet to me at my last corporation, and I said, one more thing I have to manage, another—
00:40:56 - 00:40:57
Jason Mudd
Right.
00:40:57 - 00:41:15
Ron Culp
—fad. So I told my two direct reports doing internal and external communications, guess what they asked me to do I think this belongs somewhere else. They said, are you kidding? Go back and say yes, this is the future.
00:41:15 - 00:41:16
Jason Mudd
Right.
00:41:16 - 00:41:27
Ron Culp
So when AI came around, I thought is it a fad? No, this is the real thing. We should be excited and terrified. I want to be excited—
00:41:27 - 00:41:28
Jason Mudd
Simultaneously.
00:41:28 - 00:41:30
Ron Culp
—and figure out ways to make it—
00:41:30 - 00:41:30
Jason Mudd
Yeah.
00:41:30 - 00:41:31
Ron Culp
—more exciting.
00:41:31 - 00:41:47
Jason Mudd
We've both been doing this long enough I point to when the internet first came out and people were reluctant to get online and put their business online. They either had to change their mind or close their doors, unless they were a mom-and-pop dry cleaner or something.
00:41:47 - 00:41:47
Ron Culp
Yep.
00:41:47 - 00:42:05
Jason Mudd
That's what I've been telling companies for years get ahead of this before you find yourself playing catch-up and it's too late. Before we move to the final topic anything else you'd want to mention to help senior practitioners build business acumen?
00:42:05 - 00:42:32
Ron Culp
No again, everything that applied to younger people applies here too. Most senior people don't think they have time to read the Wall Street Journal. Even at this stage of my life, I don't read it as thoroughly, but I make sure I know what's in it, because I've been yelled at twice by a CEO both times because something appeared in the Journal about our company that I didn't know about. And—
00:42:32 - 00:42:33
Jason Mudd
Okay.
00:42:33 - 00:42:39
Ron Culp
I walked into the office at 7:30 in the morning and he said, why in the hell didn't I know about this?
00:42:39 - 00:42:40
Jason Mudd
Right.
00:42:40 - 00:42:59
Ron Culp
I didn't know because my team member hadn't told me he'd gotten a call from the Wall Street Journal the day before. If I'd just picked up the paper and scanned the index, I would've known to check on it. I also had to admit my CEO had a limo taking him to work; I had to drive.
00:42:59 - 00:43:00
Jason Mudd
Ha ha ha.
00:43:00 - 00:43:15
Ron Culp
So guess what I did I got up 20 minutes earlier every day to pull the Journal off my doorstep and scan it before driving 40 miles to work.
00:43:15 - 00:43:24
Jason Mudd
Right, right. Okay, all right that reminds me of when I used to drive nearly that far, 35 miles each way. I don't miss that at all. But—
00:43:24 - 00:43:26
Ron Culp
No.
00:43:26 - 00:43:48
Jason Mudd
—yes, I used a lot of that time. What I do miss is listening to podcasts and audiobooks the kinds of things you're describing as ways to build business acumen. So, in closing, I think we've covered this well, but I'll give you a chance to wrap a bow on it: why does business acumen matter?
00:43:48 - 00:44:06
Ron Culp
First of all, I think the more you get involved in it, the more exciting it becomes. I became far more interested in my job and career once I understood what I was working on and how it mattered.
00:44:06 - 00:44:07
Jason Mudd
Mm-hmm.
00:44:07 - 00:44:54
Ron Culp
And I was able especially once I became a manager to make strategic decisions about where we put our resources. Somebody would run in with an idea for an event or a product promotion, pitched like the second coming. I started asking, is it really? For example: we were going to sponsor a bass fishing tournament in Nashville to promote marine batteries. So I called the CFO's office and asked, could you tell me how much money we make on—
00:44:54 - 00:44:54
Jason Mudd
Mm-hmm.
00:44:54 - 00:45:08
Ron Culp
—marine batteries? And he said, my God first of all, we don't sell them in marinas, only through stores. So—
00:45:08 - 00:45:09
Jason Mudd
Yeah.
00:45:09 - 00:45:39
Ron Culp
—you have to come to an auto store to buy them. I said, well, just tell me how much we make. The event, sponsored for the third year which ended the next year cost more than we made in profit on those batteries. So those decisions made me a friend out of that brand manager, who I hope isn't listening to this. But he knows you just make better decisions when you have a sense of what the business is all about. And when what you're doing isn't having any impact on the business, you really have to question it. If you don't, you're going to start being questioned.
00:45:39 - 00:46:24
Jason Mudd
That's exactly right yeah, that's good advice too. Well, Ron, this has been a pleasure nice to finally meet you. I'm going to put a link to your LinkedIn profile in our episode notes, so if you heard something you liked in this episode, we'll provide links to help guide along the conversation. It'll be at ontopofpr.com/ron-culp, and we'll link Ron's LinkedIn profile there too. When you send him a LinkedIn connection invite, please customize it let him know you saw him on On Top of PR, because in my experience people are more likely to connect when you tell them how and why. You want to get connected, and—
00:46:24 - 00:46:36
Ron Culp
Be sure to follow my career blog too, at culpwrit.com. I try to update it every week with a new post, and I have a lot of senior people in the profession contributing to it. It—
00:46:36 - 00:46:37
Jason Mudd
Great.
00:46:37 - 00:46:49
Ron Culp
—I hope you do at some point, Jason. It's very helpful and has a huge readership of mostly young people beginning their careers in PR, or students.
00:46:49 - 00:47:26
Jason Mudd
Mm-hmm, I love that. Excellent thank you. We'll link that from the episode notes too, again at ontopofpr.com/ron-culp. And if you ever need anything else, Ron, just let me know I'd be happy to help however I can. With that, this has been a great episode. Thank you for joining us. And for our audience, thank you for tuning in. If you found this episode helpful, tell a friend or colleague about it, and if you haven't already, please leave us a review on the podcast platform of your choice. In exchange, email us we'll put your name into a drawing to send you some On Top of PR swag, thanking you for taking the time to leave a review. Well, you're going to get some already just for being a guest, but we'd appreciate—
00:47:26 - 00:47:33
Ron Culp
I can't wait. Thank you.
00:47:33 - 00:48:00
Jason Mudd
—your review as well, as long as you disclose that you were a guest on the show I think that would be great. If you're looking for where to leave that review, you can go to ontopofpr.com/review, or check the episode notes for a link. The best way is to go directly to ratethispodcast.com/ontopofpr. And you can catch episodes of On Top of PR on any platform you listen to or consume podcasts, including YouTube, which is actually our most popular platform. I hope something great happens to you today.
Topics: corporate communications, On Top of PR
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