Barcelona Principles 4.0: How to Measure PR Effectively with AMEC CEO Johna Burke

            

 

00:01:04:23 - 00:01:14:22

Announcer

Welcome to On Top of PR with Jason Mudd.

 

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Jason

Hello and welcome to On Top of PR. I'm your host, Jason Mudd with Axia Public Relations. And today we're talking about Barcelona Principles 4.0.

 

00:01:20:22 - 00:01:48:13

Jason

And if you don't know what that is, hang with us because our special guest today, Jonna Burke, is going to explain all of that to you. Jana is the CEO and global managing director at the International Association for the Measurement and Evaluation of Communication, most commonly referred to as Emmet. Jana has more than 20 years of experience with proven results in B2B and B2C marketing and public relations.

 

00:01:48:15 - 00:01:52:16

Jason

Jana Burke, welcome back to on top of PR.

 

00:01:52:18 - 00:02:02:11

Johna

Thank you so much, Jason. It's good to be here with, friends and talking about PR on a very successful PR podcast. Congratulations.

 

00:02:02:13 - 00:02:18:22

Jason

Oh, thank you, thank you. I didn't tell you to to say that, but since you did, I will tell you. I just found out today we've moved from the top 5% of podcasts globally to the top 3% of podcasts globally. So I just learned that this morning and pretty excited about it.

 

00:02:18:24 - 00:02:39:19

Johna

Congratulations. Very well-deserved. Thank you. I'm very excited to be a second time guest. Yes. Podcast. But longtime listener. So it's no surprise that you're having great success. And I, it's one of the podcasts that I talk to people about, being able to get that general feedback and, you know, a really good plug in to what's going on in the PR community.

 

00:02:39:19 - 00:02:47:01

Johna

So congratulations. Richly deserved. And, I'm very happy for you and proud of you as a longtime friend as well.

 

00:02:47:03 - 00:03:03:15

Jason

Thank you. Thank you. You're you're you are joining an elite club of about a handful of people who have been on the show more than once. And, so, yeah. So that's, very cool. There's, a couple that are on almost every year to talk about a report that they do for the industry. And so they hold the record, I think.

 

00:03:03:15 - 00:03:09:14

Jason

But one day we'll give out jackets or something really fancy like that. So, yes.

 

00:03:09:17 - 00:03:12:05

Johna

You have me a gear. So we're.

 

00:03:12:08 - 00:03:38:16

Jason

That's right. Awesome. Awesome. Okay, so Johna, let's start slow or let's start quickly, but let's start small. And I mentioned for a minute about Amic and what that organization is, but, let's talk for a minute, about the background, Barcelona principles. And bring us up to speed so that then we can give the Barcelona principles for its undivided attention.

 

00:03:38:19 - 00:04:09:11

Johna

Fantastic. So Barcelona principal had their debut in 2010 and it took place. Guess where in Barcelona. And since then, a consistent has been that there are seven Barcelona principles. And the principles are not intended to be exhausted. They're not intended to be the indelible. They are intended to be very safe guardrails. So everyone who's working with data, making data priority, looking to align with their organizational objectives.

 

00:04:09:13 - 00:04:29:25

Johna

This gives them the guardrails to be able to use and say, okay, when we're operating within this function, we are operating within best practice, and it truly is a global effort. There have been this is now obviously the fourth iteration of the Barcelona Principles, and we've learned a lot with each iteration to now. Those have been conducted every five years.

 

00:04:29:27 - 00:04:41:00

Johna

But because of the the speed of everything happening, even the group and we had a group of 29 global professionals across the world who met and collaborated on this latest iteration,

 

00:04:41:00 - 00:05:00:26

Johna

you know, obviously talking about AI, what are some of the other implications around channels but also focusing on the what to do, which is what started with the 3.0 version, because it wasn't enough just to post these anymore, but people were still trying to say, okay, if we're looking to operationalize the Barcelona principles, what does that mean?

 

00:05:01:03 - 00:05:22:29

Johna

And so we started with a primer of the what to do and what not to do in 3.0. And we carry that through in 4.0 and added an e-book which makes it in a slightly easier way to consume the information. So it is very actionable. It is kind of that asset that everybody can take and use within their organization to know what it means.

 

00:05:22:29 - 00:05:51:12

Johna

What are some of the implications of supporting the Barcelona principles, of being compliant with the Barcelona Principles and how does that help them make them better communicators, a greater value to their organization, and how does it give in this time of data, give them more credibility and reliability of their data when they are aligned and using the information and ingesting it, and then reporting back on it in an ethical manner.

 

00:05:51:15 - 00:06:04:09

Jason

That's a great summary. Thank you for sharing that. And, so, just to say it back. So, Barcelona principles when you meet every five years to update them, is it required you meet in Barcelona?

 

00:06:06:03 - 00:06:16:25

Johna

No. We wish we wish it was that we we have a lot more than the 29 volunteers, I think. But, you know, we we continue to call them the Barcelona principles based on their origin, but. Sure.

 

00:06:16:25 - 00:06:29:17

Johna

And they are updated no matter where we are. And that included in 2020 when everyone was remote during Covid. So something that, you know, nothing can keep us from great updates to the Barcelona.

 

00:06:29:21 - 00:06:59:00

Jason

There you go. That's right. Come hell or high water right. So okay, so we're at the version for, you talked about what changed between the various versions between now and then. What? We're kind of, I'm sure there are multiple changes, but what were kind of the signature or primary focus during your gathering that people felt really strong about the maybe you and your leadership team or, and your, committee just felt like these are things that we got to change.

 

00:06:59:00 - 00:07:00:29

Jason

And then why did you guys feel that way?

 

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Johna

So good question. Our membership, you know, global membership is really talking about what's changing. You know, everything is so dynamic. And

 

00:07:11:05 - 00:07:44:07

Johna

how does that affect best practice. And really when we looked at the Barcelona principles because they were rooted in best practice, a lot of them are just making them clearer statements. You know, probably the one of the ones that I think is, is probably the most talked about in questioned is Barcelona principle number three, which now is comprehensive communication, measurement and evaluation should be applied to all relevant channels used to understand and influence audience stakeholders.

 

00:07:44:09 - 00:08:21:23

Johna

Right. It isn't just something that is a report card on what you're doing, but it really is looking at each of those channels so that you can get from that output to the outcome and the impact of the value of communication. The main change that people will see. And those who are familiar with the integrated evaluation framework, which is another cornerstone, asset that we have that is free to users thanks to our members, is that we've color coded the principle, made a slight change of their order so that they are aligned now with the IAAF.

 

00:08:21:23 - 00:08:48:02

Johna

So you'll find that they are all going through, you know, so planning is, you know, setting clear, measurable objectives. That's going to be that number one so that they are aligned with that IAAF with that framework, with that, we'll and there is an update to that. And then of course we have Barcelona principle seven which encompasses throughout the entire area which is ethics governance and transparency with data methodologies and technology builds trust and drives learning.

 

00:08:48:04 - 00:09:21:17

Johna

And that's what organizations are looking for from that outcome and that impact piece. And so having that aligned and color coded, which is great except for people who are colorblind, but making sure that those are, you know, aligned and just giving that extra touchpoint, that extra connection, that extra connective tissue to why this is important to where this takes place, to how they should be looking at that has been very well received by the community and by, you know, the larger academic to review this for us as well.

 

00:09:21:19 - 00:09:43:07

Johna

We're in the process of, you know, rolling this out with a lot of our industry partners who have, you know, many have already talked about their support of this because, again, it isn't trying to be clever. It's trying to set this foundational piece so that no matter where people are on their journey, it is a great benchmark of are we aligned with best practice?

 

00:09:43:13 - 00:10:13:28

Johna

How can we be consistent? How are we making sure that we are defining our goals and objectives accurately? How are we making sure that the work that we're doing is not just aligned with things that we would like to be aligned with, but things that matter to the organization? And that's what the principles update. And you know, the what to do around some of those channels is where that committee really dug in, where they debated, and they were able to come up with what has been widely accepted as a great update.

 

00:10:13:28 - 00:10:53:12

Johna

And it wasn't intended to be, a revolution. Right? Everyone's like, yeah, everything needs to change and talk about what's going on globally. I think there are enough revolutions for everybody right now. So this was really intended to be a nice l'évolution so that it could be people into what's working and help them give them indicators, give them a little better explanation to share with their internal teams, with their C-suite about why there is this evolution, how this is incorporating some of the channels, some of the tactics and techniques that they might be using to make it a more effective resource.

 

00:10:53:12 - 00:11:18:03

Johna

And again, give them those nice guardrails so that they are third party endorsed on a global level by, a broad ecosystem within the community to give them the confidence to align their work and then to accelerate those things that are working very well for them and to give them some rooted systemic value in how things they can challenge, the things that they find aren't working.

 

00:11:18:06 - 00:11:30:00

Jason

And so for clarifying for our audience at home, you use an acronym there, and I don't know which one you were saying. So I f the integrated evaluation Framework or IRF international accreditation form.

 

00:11:30:03 - 00:12:08:16

Johna

I f the Amac Integrated Evaluation Framework, and it is a free tool that you can go to Amic or Gqom under resources, and it is the IAAF and it gives you the planning elements, and it is a fill in the text box for what you are doing, starting with your objective and going through to put your activities, your outputs, the outcome so that when you use this with your team and you put everything in the framework, it also helps you understand which efforts are paid, earned, shared and owned.

 

00:12:08:18 - 00:12:26:14

Johna

So you are taking those. Then you give that to your team. You use it as the planning tool as much as you use it as a measurement tool, which arguably, if you're doing measurement effectively, you need to have good concrete planning in place to have those well-defined objectives, to know and understand what's working and what's not working.

 

00:12:26:16 - 00:12:45:17

Jason

All right. So, thank you for explaining that. I know we have planned, I don't think we've done it yet, but an episode in the future, we're we're going to walk through that framework. You know, as, with I'm going to just do a solo cast and walk through it on your website, sharing your website, so that my, our audience can see that.

 

00:12:45:17 - 00:12:58:23

Jason

So that's something that's in the works. And now this is prompting me to make sure I do it sooner than later because I'm talking about it now. So that's something we'll do in the near future as well, which I think our audience will really appreciate. So let's back up for a second, because you mentioned this, because.

 

00:12:58:25 - 00:13:10:27

Johna

Planning, before you go down that path too far, I can say that we do have some case studies of people who would be willing to walk through their actual results of what they've done with you in the framework format, so it can make it easier for people.

 

00:13:11:03 - 00:13:13:23

Jason

Yeah. Okay. Let's talk about that. That'd be great.

 

00:13:13:23 - 00:13:22:11

Jason

You mentioned paid, earned, shared and owned our pay. So, what are the origins of that expression?

 

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Johna

Don Bartholomew

 

00:13:24:01 - 00:13:49:02

Johna

back in. Oh, my gosh, Jason, I can't believe you're checking me on dates. I want to say 2007. Maybe sooner. But there was a North America Olmec work group, and going through we started out with these, you know, spreadsheets. And then Don came up with that paid, earned, shared own model within that framework.

 

00:13:49:04 - 00:14:20:02

Johna

And it was easy with the caveat it was easy for North American based people to understand and use that acronym. It was more confusing for some of our Latam members when we talk about pesos and talked about it in the, you know, current form. But really putting that model together around being able to separate for people which channel it's in, where some of that attribution can and should come from.

 

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Johna

And Don Bartholomew, rest his soul, is one of the great thinkers of this space. And why the highest award that Emmet provides, which is the Don Bartholomew Award, is for someone who has, a lifetime of contribution to measurement and evaluation, is no longer named the chairman Award, but the Don Bartholomew Award.

 

00:14:43:02 - 00:14:52:05

Jason

Very nice. That's very, very nice way to honor him. And I know we've talked in the past about his innovation and contributions to the profession, which is obviously very valuable.

 

00:14:52:05 - 00:15:01:15

Jason

This episode is brought to you by Audible. Enjoy 30 days free of Audible Premium Plus by going to ontopofpr.com/audible.

 

00:15:01:15 - 00:15:26:02

Announcer

You're listening to On Top of PR with your host, Jason Mudd. Jason is a trusted advisor to some of America's most admired and fastest growing brands. He is the managing partner at Axia Public Relations, a PR agency that guides news, social and web strategies for national companies. And now, back to the show.

 

00:15:26:02 - 00:15:38:02

Jason

And so speaking of nuances, you and I have talked about this offline, but let's talk about it here, which is, you know, your association is not named association for the measurement, evaluation of communications with an s, right.

 

00:15:38:05 - 00:15:43:22

Jason

Talk to me a little bit about the nuances there that you've seen looking doing your work in a global platform.

 

00:15:44:24 - 00:15:53:06

Johna

Thank you for the question, Jason. There's no PTSD involved with this at all. So it's very much about it publicly. You know, it.

 

00:15:53:06 - 00:16:17:11

Johna

One of the great joys is working with our academics. And, you know, while communications and communication are in many ways used interchangeably, can you notations is really telecommunications. And so unless it is specifically about telecommunications, it should be communication singular of the communication industry, the communication profession.

 

00:16:17:13 - 00:16:41:01

Jason

So, you know, we've talked about that a little bit and, you know, but we run up into situations, Jonna, where, you know, like people have a degree in communications, they there's Department of Communications, both academically and corporately. So, you know, are these these people are these basically people misusing the term or is there not the same nuance in the States as there are in other countries?

 

00:16:41:12 - 00:16:52:21

Johna

If we're looking at it being accurate, it would. It would only be unless it included some telecommunications function. Their degree is actually in communication, not in communications.

 

00:16:52:21 - 00:17:13:13

Johna

And even your friends at ChatGPT and Gemini will say the same thing when you ask them the question, what is the difference between communications and communication? And then you use the application of how we will see it a lot in press releases and write news coverage.

 

00:17:13:15 - 00:17:19:10

Johna

It will say while both can be used, communication singular is correct.

 

00:17:19:12 - 00:17:36:26

Jason

Yeah, yeah. And honestly, I never really thought about it until you, you know, kind of, educated me on that, and now I can't unsee it. You know, so just one of those things. Right. And, and so, you know, and I've had colleagues, you know, tell me that I forgot the s or something like that in my.

 

00:17:36:26 - 00:17:50:14

Jason

Oh, boy, here we go. Right. So a whole conversation, kind of thing. So, anyway, thank you for explaining that. Let's jump back into the Barcelona principles here. How many total principles are there?

 

00:17:50:16 - 00:17:51:15

Johna

Seven principles?

 

00:17:51:21 - 00:17:57:26

Jason

Seven. Could we quickly run through those seven, at a high level just to educate our audience here?

 

00:17:57:29 - 00:18:04:17

Johna

Absolutely. I'll just read through them for you pretty quickly, and I am going to read through them because I don't want to make any mistakes with the other piece. All right.

 

00:18:04:17 - 00:18:06:21

Jason

I have to do the same thing to. Sure.

 

00:18:06:23 - 00:18:38:29

Johna

Okay. Barcelona principle number one setting clear, measurable objectives is a critical prerequisite for effective communication, planning, measurement and evaluation. Barcelona. Principle number two defining and understanding all stakeholder audiences are essential steps to plan, build relationships and create lasting impact. Barcelona. Principle number three comprehensive communication, measurement and evaluation should be applied to all relevant channels used to understand and influence audience stakeholders.

 

00:18:39:01 - 00:19:13:18

Johna

Barcelona. Principle number four effective measurement and evaluation of communication require qualitative and quantitative analysis. Barcelona. Principle number five invalid measures such as advertising value equivalence should not be used. Instead, measure and evaluate the contribution of communication by its outcome and impact. Barcelona Principle number six measurement and evaluation should report output, outcomes and impact related to the organization and stakeholder audiences.

 

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Johna

And finally, Barcelona. Principle number seven ethics, governance and transparency with data, methodologies and technology builds trust and drive learning.

 

00:19:26:03 - 00:19:51:14

Jason

All right. I feel like we were at the the church of PR measurement right now, and you were doing a reading for us. But no, that was awesome. Thank you. Very hopeful. We're going to is a favor to our audience. We're going to put links and the episode notes to the different resources we talked about. And before we press record, you talked a little bit about, you know, some, some things that are upcoming with your organization and some other resources that, I think they'll find helpful.

 

00:19:51:19 - 00:20:00:16

Jason

Let's talk first about kind of the, the measurement program we talked briefly about. That's kind of the entry level program. Could you spend maybe 30s talking about that?

 

00:20:00:18 - 00:20:27:28

Johna

Absolutely. So we have the foundation course for measurement and Evaluation of communication. And along with the link in the show notes, I'll also provide a code so that listeners of the podcast will have 12 months to complete that at no additional, at no cost to them. So that wow, that's awesome. Friends of Jason. Opportunities that, everyone here has, has access to.

 

00:20:28:01 - 00:20:50:20

Johna

And, you know, that is really the basics. A lot of our members have access to these tools, and they use them as onboarding for new account managers, for new team members, so that it gives them that basis of the language going through so that they understand some of that terminology when they're working with their client. We are in the process of that being updated to include some of the AI assets and element.

 

00:20:50:20 - 00:21:18:13

Johna

So that will be updated in probably the next 60 to 90 days. That should be final at the latest during measurement month, which is in November. Everybody's favorite month. Our deadline. But that but that code that we will provide will be good for the existing course and for the updated course, in its format will make sure that that is good for a full 12 months for everybody who's listening from today's date, which is July 21st.

 

00:21:18:15 - 00:21:35:06

Jason

Yeah. And this episode will probably air in in several weeks. So the timing will probably be great that it'll be closer to, the new release. But thank you for that. That's a very generous offer. I didn't know that was happening. Genuinely, so thank you. That's awesome. And then, you're also starting, a new endeavor in the near term with your organization.

 

00:21:35:06 - 00:21:37:29

Jason

Can we talk about that or is that too soon?

 

00:21:38:01 - 00:21:47:21

Johna

No, I can, but I'll just add on the education piece that we also have a certificate, measurement and valuation certificate that we have through PR Academy, which gives

 

00:21:47:21 - 00:22:06:12

Johna

a proper certification. And, that is about a ten week course where people you get to test your skills. The final project is applying the IAF for your organization. So anybody who invest in that program takes away an actual project that will then be graded.

 

00:22:06:12 - 00:22:35:13

Johna

And given feedback. So it's a resource, an asset that you can turn around as an immediate return to your organization. In June, we launched the diploma course, which is very exciting. We had the opportunity to work with Professor Jim McNamara, who is one of the the most prolific, great thinkers in this space. And it is, in my humble opinion, an excellent course for anyone who has either completed the certificate course or not.

 

00:22:35:15 - 00:23:04:21

Johna

If you want to look at a proper diploma level course certification, this is that and being able to challenge yourself again and you'll work with Paul Henderson who is the course instructor. And again, that final project gives you something that you can immediately apply in your organization with external and third party feedback around how that works. So it's a great investment of time and resource and to educate yourself and to get that application of those processes.

 

00:23:04:24 - 00:23:10:22

Johna

I think what you were talking about, though, is in the fall, we will be launching a podcast. Is that what you meant, Jason?

 

00:23:10:26 - 00:23:12:17

Jason

Yes, exactly.

 

00:23:12:19 - 00:23:33:04

Johna

Yes. So we are going to launch a podcast series, for all of those of you, when in between sessions of on top of PR, you're like, if only there was some other place we could go and hear something about PR and measurement. We are providing that space. And we look for that to launch in September.

 

00:23:33:04 - 00:23:56:27

Johna

So hopefully with friends like you, Jason, especially with your, you know, ongoing success in your program, not only are you very generous to share some hints and tips that hopefully share the launch of that in one of your so low upcoming so, you know, when people who can't get enough just need that extra little hit of interesting conversation, you can help tell them where to find us at that time.

 

00:23:56:29 - 00:24:25:28

Jason

Yeah, we'd love to help you with that. Of course. A good friend like you and your organization, I'm always willing to, look out for and take care of. So, Jana, we have, almost run out of time. So as we're wrapping up, tell me what you can, tell our audience what you can about your, 20, 26, conference and, as well as how they can get Ahold of you and reach out to the organization if they're interested in membership or exploring the programs we talked about today.

 

00:24:26:00 - 00:24:49:22

Johna

Absolutely. Thanks so much for the opportunity, Jason. So we have actually a new program that will be on November 4th this year, and it is I day I know what's I you asked no one. Yeah. It is really going to be though around the tactics for communication. So we are in the call for speakers process right now and it is going to be real world application.

 

00:24:49:23 - 00:25:14:10

Johna

So you know the hits, the misses, the things to do, the tactics to go back to make it actionable for you in an ethical and meaningful way. So it's the intention of this day is to make it so I isn't this kind of obtuse area where people are all kind of struggling, being overwhelmed by it, but learning from people who are applying it, the tools that they're using to apply it.

 

00:25:14:10 - 00:25:32:18

Johna

In some cases, that's making their job easier and that it's helping to ease that demand for people. And the expectation is like, oh, well, you're you should be using I this will make it so much easier, giving some of those real world scenarios as a response of why you are or why you aren't. This day is going to help.

 

00:25:32:18 - 00:25:51:00

Johna

And while it will be based in London, we do expect to have a virtual pass available to that day, which will be, a great opportunity and we'll make sure that we share that with you, Jason, so you can share that within your networks. But a great way to be able to follow that is to follow MF. Org on LinkedIn.

 

00:25:51:02 - 00:26:11:23

Johna

You can also reach out to me if you think you would be an amazing speaker for that opportunity at Jana. That's Johanna at Amico ergo com. You can connect with me on LinkedIn. Do a quick search for go Jana. Be as the easiest way because believe it or not, there is more than one Jana Burke. Hey.

 

00:26:11:26 - 00:26:12:09

Jason

How dare.

 

00:26:12:09 - 00:26:25:08

Johna

They? It's true. Yeah, I know some people's kids. But, you know, it's it's a lot of great things. And put in your budget now for the summit global summit, which will be in Dublin next year.

 

00:26:25:10 - 00:26:25:25

Jason

Oh, right.

 

00:26:25:27 - 00:26:26:18

Johna

Not is.

 

00:26:26:20 - 00:26:29:05

Jason

I'm interested.

 

00:26:29:07 - 00:26:53:28

Johna

Two full days of programing. Committed to comms and PR measurement and evaluation. We always have a lot of great panels, great discussions. It ranges from, you know, not for profit to large organizations. How they're applying it, those findings that they have in September of this year, you'll be able to see all of the 2025 sessions. They'll go live on YouTube.

 

00:26:54:02 - 00:27:13:25

Johna

To give you an example of those. It's a great networking forum because we make sure that as much as we dig into data and information, we set aside a lot of time for networking and a lot of informal time to ask those tough questions about like, okay, that session looked really good, but what did you do when this happened?

 

00:27:13:25 - 00:27:36:18

Johna

How did you get buy in? And you really come together with a peer group that makes all of those challenging challenges that you're likely facing a lot more manageable, because it is a community that comes together and helps everyone through that process. So, the final dates for that will be announced in the next month, and we're very excited to be in Dublin.

 

00:27:36:18 - 00:28:19:10

Johna

It is a fun city if you haven't been there, and it is a great opportunity to join a community of really knowledgeable people who share and you know, Jason, you're a PR agency and and that the PR agency is one of my favorite groups because while they compete feverishly for a lot of work, at the same time, when we come together on issues, on initiatives, we call it the Common Ground Group, because that common ground is to have been steeped in best purpose, best practice, and all of those, you know, competitive natures, they all kind of are shed for those moments to really work towards what's going to be best for the industry.

 

00:28:19:10 - 00:29:02:18

Johna

And it is kind of the best of communication, the best of people all coming together, which makes it, a rare opportunity in a very competitive environment and a reason why it is, a personal pleasure to dedicate so much time and energy to this community and to be the CEO and to hopefully lead us into a way that will not only help drive value, but also help inspire that next generation so that we continue to have people coming in and be interested in this and, you know, want to communicate effectively and be able to do that and, you know, apply critical thinking and not just whatever prompts are going to tell them, but really

 

00:29:02:18 - 00:29:30:24

Johna

keep that special spark of communication alive and well in how people communicate. And looking at those behavior pieces and looking at the emotive pieces as opposed to, you know, everything being flat words. And in some database it has the meaning behind it, and it's the communicator who's able to bring that story to life. And I want that to be a thriving and successful community for many, many years to come.

 

00:29:30:26 - 00:29:48:02

Jason

Well, that sounds great, John. I think they found the best person for the job. And you're doing a great job being a good ambassador to, the profession and, and the cause. So, kudos to you for all of your hard work and long hours. I know we as a profession appreciate all that you do.

 

00:29:48:04 - 00:30:14:04

Jason

With that, unfortunately, we've run out of time, so I'm going to have to wrap this up. But what we'll do is, in addition to the generous offer you made and the promo code in our episode notes, I'll also put a link back to your previous appearance on our podcast so that if people just couldn't get enough of you today, which I'm sure they didn't, we can have them, jump in, and go back, to watch that past episode as well, which I think will be a good foundation for the conversation we had today.

 

00:30:14:06 - 00:30:20:08

Johna

Thank you, Jason, and congratulations again on all your success. It is, wonderful to see and I appreciate all of your support.

 

00:30:20:11 - 00:30:39:14

Jason

Thank you. Well, could have done it without friends like you. So thank you so much for all of your support. So with that, we've got another. That's been another episode of On Top of PR. We want to thank you for tuning in today, and we would ask you that you take a moment if you enjoyed this episode, to leave us an online review or better yet, share this episode with a friend or colleague you think would benefit from watching it. With that, this is Jason Mudd from Axia Public Relations, signing off and helping you stay on top of PR.

 

00:30:39:14 - 00:31:35:06

Announcer

This has been On Top of PR with Jason Mudd presented by ReviewMaxer. Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss an episode and check out past episodes at ontopofpr.com.