Making your media pitches stand out with Qwoted

On Top of PR with Jason Mudd podcast: media pitching with Qwoted’s Vannyda Thach and show host Jason Mudd episode graphic

In this episode, Vannyda Thach joins host Jason Mudd to discuss expert strategies for media pitching and journalist relationships

Tune in to learn more!

Our guest

Vannyda Thach is the Head of Media Success at Qwoted. With a background in media relations and digital communications, Vannyda helps journalists find trusted sources and build meaningful relationships through the Qwoted platform. Her experience spans PR campaign management, social media strategy, and work with major entertainment events, including Disney’s “Big Hero 6” premiere.

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5 things you’ll learn during the full episode:

Why building relationships (and not just landing placements) is the foundation of good media pitching
The difference between cold pitches and media query responses — and how to craft both effectively
Best practices for using Qwoted to match sources with journalists quickly and accurately
How personalization, clarity, and relevance impact whether journalists notice or ignore a pitch
The role of urgency and profile optimization in earning top-tier media coverage

About Vannyda Thach

Vannyda Thach is the Head of Media Success at Qwoted, a platform dedicated to connecting journalists with expert sources. Based in Los Angeles, she leads a team committed to supporting media professionals — including journalists, freelancers, podcasters, and producers by facilitating connections with the right experts for their stories, even under tight deadlines.

With a journalism and public relations background, Vannyda earned her bachelor's degree in journalism with an emphasis in public relations from California State University, Long Beach. Her career began with roles such as a communications intern at AARP and public relations manager for DisneyExaminer. She later joined Citizen Relations, progressing from a junior account executive to senior account executive, managing PR campaigns and fostering media relationships.

At Qwoted, Vannyda leverages her PR experience to assist journalists in finding trusted sources and building meaningful relationships through the platform. She emphasizes the importance of being helpful over selling in media pitching and building genuine connections with reporters.

Quotables

“You want to be unique. You want to have your own take on the topic.” — @VannydaThach
“Remember to call the journalist by their name. If your pitch isn’t personalized, they’ll see right through it.” — @VannydaThach
“Pitching media is about being helpful, not selling. Focus on building the relationship.” — @JasonMudd9
“Don’t ghost reporters. Communicate early if something changes. It’s all about respect.” — @JasonMudd9
“Journalists are busy and under pressure. The more complete your profile, the more credibility you have.” — @VannydaThach

Resources

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Episode Highlights

[00:06:10] Tailor Every Pitch to the Journalist’s Needs

"You need to make sure that you are just, you know, really looking at what they need and making sure that you are an exact fit."

[00:18:02] Start with Being Helpful, Not Selling

"But it does really start with just being helpful and really paying attention to what they need."

[00:19:07] Keep Your Media Pitch Concise and Relevant

"Be personalized with your pitch. Make sure that you are concise and get to the point with what you are trying to share instead of like, that fluff."

[00:29:31] Don’t Use AI to Write Your Pitches

"Do not use AI in your pitch as well. That is one of the things that will get you the similar response, as do other people who are trying to compete."

[00:41:15] Communicate Early When a Source Backs Out

"I would just recommend that you are communicative around that. Let them know. And still try to be helpful if you have another client who might be available."

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Transcript

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:18:20

Jason

So I always say have a sense of urgency, right? Try to be the one to respond early or first. But when you respond again, you got to be provocative, contrarian and have a unique point of view. You've got to be helpful. Right? And you've you've got to, you know, focus on the relationship, not trying to sell them something.

00:00:18:22 - 00:00:39:01

Vannyda

Yeah for sure. And also I want to add that whenever you see a reporter's deadline, it may say a couple of days out a week out, but remember that they want things A.s.a.p.. So yes, urgency, will help you get there too.

00:00:39:01 - 00:00:48:29

Announcer

Welcome to On Top of PR with Jason Mudd.

00:00:48:29 - 00:01:01:20

Jason

Hello and welcome to On Top of PR. I’m your host, Jason Mudd with Axia Public Relations. And today we're talking about how to make your media pitches stand out. I'm joined by Vannyda from quoted, Vannyda. Welcome to the show.

00:01:01:23 - 00:01:03:11

Vannyda

Thanks for having me. Hi.

00:01:03:14 - 00:01:28:17

Jason

Hi. We're glad you're here. I'm glad to be here. And I'm glad that we have this content today of how to make your media pitches stand out for our audience. Vannyda is a seasoned public relations professional with a background in media relations and digital communications. As the head of media success at quoted, she leverages her PR expertise to support journalists and facilitate meaningful connections between media professionals and expert sources.

00:01:28:20 - 00:02:04:14

Jason

Her previous experience includes impactful roles in social media and campaign management. Notably, she contributed to significant events like the Big Hero six Hollywood premiere for Disney Examiner. All right, Vannyda, that's great. We've got you set up here with, good experience and expertise. What I'm excited about is to explain to our audience that you work for quoted. And your job is to help support journalists as they're looking to have stories or write stories or connect with experts and, you know, quoted is one of the many tools we use at our agency.

00:02:04:19 - 00:02:16:08

Jason

Let's just take a quick moment, because I don't think the marketplace is yet as familiar with your, platform as they'd like to be. So could you give us just the elevator summary of quoted?

00:02:16:10 - 00:02:49:08

Vannyda

Yeah. Of course. Quote. It is a free platform and network. We are global and we connect members of the media, which includes podcasters, writers, freelancers, producers, with experts, brand peers. And we allow them to build relationships on the platform. So whenever a reporter or a writer needs a source for their story, they need quotes, to add some color into their piece.

00:02:49:11 - 00:02:58:14

Vannyda

We connect the two together, and the PR and experts and brands, they can share their expertise with the media.

00:02:58:16 - 00:03:19:02

Jason

Nice. Love it. Love it. Yeah, we we're big fans of quoted. And, glad that you're here to discuss it. I've been wanting to have somebody from quoted on on top of PR, since we got it started. And so is we're talking today about how to make media pitches stand out. There's three areas we're going to cover and perhaps more depending on where the conversation goes.

00:03:19:05 - 00:03:41:16

Jason

But we're gonna talk about pitching. Media is more than just earning placements. It's about relationships. Second, we're going to focus on helping our being helpful to reporters and not ghosting them. Even when your, clients who could be your, supervisors or, our leadership team or actual corporate clients, when they back out at the last minute or they ghost you.

00:03:41:19 - 00:03:56:07

Jason

Which happens. And then the third thing we want to talk about is how Covid makes it easy to increase your visibility and target specific outlets that you desire to get coverage in. Vannyda, does that sound like, a good, good place to start?

00:03:56:10 - 00:03:56:21

Vannyda

Yeah.

00:03:56:21 - 00:04:17:08

Jason

And so all right, well, let's talk first about pitching media as more than just earning placements. It's about relationships. So if anyone is listening to this show for very long, I emphasize that a great news story is going to, supersede a great relationship any time. So I could be the best man at the Wall Street Journal editors wedding.

00:04:17:08 - 00:04:33:21

Jason

And if my story doesn't fit his audience or the topics that they cover, they're not going to cover me, right? They're not going to cover my story. But on a day that all things are equal and they're comparing my story to somebody else's story, and they know me, like me, trust me, and want to do business with me, they're going to on doing my story.

00:04:33:24 - 00:04:57:22

Jason

But I could also go to a publication or a TV show that's never heard of me before. And if I've got something salacious or sizzling or interesting or breaking news, that they feel comfortable and vetting me or using and it's highly newsworthy, then of course, that's going to go to the top of the stack. So I believe relationships are very important.

00:04:57:25 - 00:05:11:06

Jason

But so is having a good story, and you can have a bad story and a good relationship and probably not be successful. You could have a great story and no relationship and probably be successful. Do you agree or disagree with any any of that?

00:05:11:09 - 00:05:44:07

Vannyda

No. That all sounds sounds right to me. You know, it's all about helping the reporters, right? You might have something on hand that you're looking to pitch for your client, and, that's the pressing topic that you need to focus on. But if you're just trying to spray and pray and just trying to get it in front of the reporter, that that might bite you in the butt a little bit because they, you know, you're just trying to help them.

00:05:44:07 - 00:06:10:16

Vannyda

They have something on deadline right now, and that's their main focus. If your pitch is irrelevant, you know, they're definitely going to ignore it. They will probably remember you for pitching something, to you. To them. That is irrelevant. And so, yeah, it all really is exactly what you suggested. It needs to be timely.

00:06:10:16 - 00:06:34:10

Vannyda

It needs to be relevant to what they're looking for. You know, when it comes to quoted and the opportunities that you see on quoted, when a reporter submits their request, they have specific topics, specific questions that they have listed in their request. And you'll want to make sure that you are fit, that you have the credentials that they're looking for.

00:06:34:13 - 00:07:06:17

Vannyda

Sometimes they say that they need a registered dietitian. But maybe you have some expertise in food, but you aren't a registered dietitian, right? You need to make sure that you are just, you know, really looking at what they need and making sure that you are an exact fit. And, when all of that, you know, ties in together, then your the chances of getting a response back and getting into that piece is definitely a lot higher than, you know.

00:07:06:19 - 00:07:25:21

Jason

Yeah, absolutely. So, I want to just take a step back because as you were talking, it dawned on me that, you know, some members of our audience may have no idea what we're talking about when it comes to media request. Right. So I'm going to explain it briefly, and then I'd like you to add on or plus anything I said to add more value.

00:07:25:22 - 00:07:53:08

Jason

So there are services like quoted, that are in the marketplace that help connect journalists with experts. We talked about that briefly a little bit, but the idea is that, journalists are posting, to quoted or notifying quoted saying, hey, I've got this opportunity or I've got this story I'm working on, here's my deadline, here's what I'm looking for, here's some questions that I have and I want to hear from sources in the marketplace.

00:07:53:11 - 00:08:33:21

Jason

And then to that end quote is a platform. PR professionals, PR agencies like us subscribe to that service and we select the topics that we have expertise in or clients that have expertise in. And so for our audience, you know, you might work at a family entertainment center, you might work at a company that offers franchise opportunities, you might work at a home improvement, are a home services company, and so you would opt in to getting notifications for those topics that you feel comfortable and your executives and thought leaders, and subject matter experts in your, inside your organization feel comfortable talking about or your PR firm should be doing that for you.

00:08:33:28 - 00:08:56:10

Jason

And then when these opportunities come, and they come in all day long, depending on the category you select, and then you view them and you kind of you, you like you said earlier, you kind of decide, do we fit the criteria for this request. And as you mentioned earlier, they may say specifically must be a, what did you say?

00:08:56:12 - 00:08:56:19

Jason

Is your.

00:08:56:19 - 00:08:57:05

Vannyda

Dietitian.

00:08:57:08 - 00:09:33:20

Jason

Registered dietitian? So if your employer or your client is not a registered dietitian, they better not respond. You better not respond on their behalf. Now, maybe, and I'll look for you to give feedback on this. Maybe you respond and say, hey, I don't have a registered dietitian, and you just say that right up front. But if you get in a jam, I can help you with Sally, who is not a registered dietitian, but she believes and then you kind of passive aggressively or very smoothly respond to the query, but you need to say up front right away, hey, this is not the person that meets your full criteria.

00:09:33:22 - 00:09:38:09

Jason

If you get in a jam, we'd be happy to help. What do you think about that approach?

00:09:38:11 - 00:10:03:13

Vannyda

Yeah, we see that sometimes happening. And, you know, there are times where reporters are a little bit more lenient with what they're looking for. You know, you can kind of tell in the, the way that they have written up their request, if they say, I am only looking for x, y, Z, please do not pitch me right.

00:10:03:16 - 00:10:28:07

Vannyda

You know, if you do not have these credentials, but there's sometimes there's a little bit of wiggle room. But I like what you said, Jason, about, saying that upfront because that tells them that you did read their request, very closely. You are paying attention to exactly what they're looking for. And in a sense, yes, you are still trying to be helpful.

00:10:28:07 - 00:10:46:11

Vannyda

So in that case, you know, I would say that's okay. Just acknowledging that, that they, you know, you might not fit 100%, but, you may have someone still on hand who can give them insight in a different angle.

00:10:46:14 - 00:11:15:07

Jason

And I would just insert that. One of the cool things about your platform is that you can already tell how many people responded. So if you see five people have already responded, then obviously they're not going to need you, right? Because they've got five other options. So that's when you pull back. But the other compliment to your platform is I've seen it where, you know, there's some kind of notification and I don't use it enough to remember if it's an email or on your website, but it basically just says, like, you know, deadline approaching soon.

00:11:15:07 - 00:11:33:01

Jason

Right? So there's kind of an indicator they're still looking for sources and they're about to hit their deadline. I also like how you flag certain things as like, easy wins. I think that's pretty cool to do as well. And so, you know, just to be clear, our agency is using quoted every day, I hope, all day long.

00:11:33:01 - 00:11:49:20

Jason

Right. I just have a team of people that are using it on a regular basis. I get notified occasionally for myself when there are things where people are looking to quote a public relations, consultant or advisor or crisis or reputation management, type expert.

00:11:49:23 - 00:12:12:23

Vannyda

Yeah. For sure. I mean, I would also say to, yeah, we hope that you would be using it all day long, but also like the we want to make sure that you are getting notified of, you know, exactly what fits your clients too. And the important thing, to help do that is to make sure that your profile is all filled out.

00:12:12:26 - 00:12:41:21

Vannyda

We whenever a reporter submits a request into the network based on the description that they've included, what they need, we do use, tech and natural language processing to match you with what the reporter has shared in their request, and that's how you get notified of the opportunity that just came into the network. And that's how we ping you, through email, saying that your client matches this one and you should pitch them.

00:12:41:21 - 00:13:14:17

Vannyda

So one of the ways that you can make sure that you get matched with the right opportunities is to fill out your profile fully. So that means, you know, adding the hashtags and the proper topics that your client can speak on, making sure that you have your client, bio in there, your, your expert headshot. There's also a couple other sections within the profile, like adding some examples of where the expert has been in the media.

00:13:14:17 - 00:13:39:11

Vannyda

So all of that, you kind of want to take a look at that as your digital media kit in a sense, right? Yeah. That you want to make it easy for the reporter to just see that whenever you push them, they can just click in and read exactly who the expert is, and that will allow them to decide who they're, you know, if they're interested in speaking with you and if they want to interview you.

00:13:39:14 - 00:13:57:13

Vannyda

Otherwise, if you pitch them and your profile is empty, they're going to click into it and they have no clue who this person is. Right. And so you want to think of it as, yeah, making it easier for the reporter. And that will increase the likelihood and the chance of, you know, getting a response back as well. From the the reporter.

00:13:57:16 - 00:14:09:25

Jason

Yeah, I also think it's a credibility thing. Right. The more complete and comprehensive your profile is, the more they sense they're dealing with a professional. Somebody who's been around, someone who knows what they're doing or talking about.

00:14:09:27 - 00:14:20:24

Vannyda

Exactly. Yeah. And it cuts out the time for the reporter to have to dig and research. Right. They don't see anything there they might need to look for. They might need to Google a little bit further.

00:14:20:27 - 00:14:40:19

Jason

Yeah. Well, we need to I think you're going to disagree with me on this probably, but I usually would advise so to our audience. Right. If, if you're, you know, the CEO of your own company, and, and it's a company of enough size, you know, you probably don't need to be getting quoted queries sent your direction or quoted requests sent directly to you.

00:14:40:23 - 00:15:02:25

Jason

Instead, you should really delegate that to your PR firm or, you know, your PR department internally or your marketing person, maybe even just your assistant if need be. Right. But what what I want to express is that, you know, this is a tool that requires not only, you know, time and attention, but also requires it, at least as a best practice.

00:15:03:01 - 00:15:24:16

Jason

Somebody who knows what they're doing, somebody who has some experience doing it. The example I like to use is like, you know, you don't go by AutoCAD and ask your receptionist to lay out, you know, your, your new offices. Right? And you don't go by Photoshop. Right. And then hand it to somebody who doesn't know the first thing about, computer graphics or even design.

00:15:24:19 - 00:15:42:27

Jason

There's a training learning curve or whatever it might be. So this is a great tool for people who are equipped to go out and pitch media. But like you just said, you've got to listen carefully to the request and you have to have the discernment and experience to understand what that journalist is looking for versus just spamming them with something that's not appropriate.

00:15:42:27 - 00:15:43:18

Jason

Right?

00:15:43:21 - 00:15:55:28

Vannyda

Oh for sure. I mean, yeah, if you're a CEO, you have a PR agency you're working with. Yes, absolutely. Have them facilitate everything within the platform. And yeah, I definitely don't disagree with that.

00:15:56:05 - 00:16:15:04

Jason

Well, I just mean I mean, I guess what I'm saying is not everybody needs to have and manage. Not everybody needs to manage their own profile, is what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah. Because I once talked to a guy and he was like, well, while I'm shaving and brushing my teeth, I'm scanning through the media opportunities and media requests like, you might just want to have somebody else do that.

00:16:15:04 - 00:16:47:13

Jason

You know, like, that didn't seem like what I call the highest and best use of your time. Yeah. But let's get back to talking about relationships. So pitching media is more than just, earning placements. So I'm always on, my soapbox where I will say, you know, PR is more than media coverage, right? And, and that media relations is a specialization of public relations and that, in order to get media coverage right, you've got to invest in media relations or media relationships.

00:16:47:15 - 00:17:13:23

Jason

It's a long game, not a short game. So how do we go about, building relationships with busy journalists who, you know, sometimes, you know, are pretty proud of their role and, and, and don't often give a lot of time to people. They don't know. Now, occasionally you will meet somebody in a newsroom who is extremely helpful and wants to be kind of that liaison and that, you know, personal advocate for you in the newsroom.

00:17:14:00 - 00:17:27:12

Jason

But generally speaking, journalists are under a lot of pressure, a lot of deadlines. And they just don't have time for, you know, what they would call fluff. So how do you pierce through that cynical and busy, environment?

00:17:27:15 - 00:18:02:10

Vannyda

Yeah. Number one, you have to remember the human. They are very, very busy, like you said. And they are working against tight deadlines and multiple deadlines at the same time. I think it goes back to being helpful and just wanting to help them. You know, as a PR, you have your KPIs, right? You need a get into a certain number of placements and and get this many impressions, get this many links into certain publications and your target publications for your client.

00:18:02:10 - 00:18:32:18

Vannyda

Right? And yes, those are all great things to be able to go back to your client and say, look what we were able to get for you and the exposure that we got for you. But it does really start with just being helpful and really paying attention to what they need. You know, some of the tips that we share when you are pitching a reporter is, remember to call them by their name.

00:18:32:22 - 00:19:07:26

Vannyda

Sometimes, there are times when you know, your pitch is not personalized, and they've been doing this for a very long time. They can read through that if it's a copy and paste. But so be personalized with your pitch. Make sure that you are concise and, get to the point. With what you are trying to share instead of like, that fluff that you're mentioning about, also, yeah, being concise, you know, your pitch should be within maybe seven to 10 to 12 sentences long.

00:19:07:26 - 00:19:37:08

Vannyda

Don't go too, you know, too long. And more than that, because that will be part of the noise that they are getting. And, yeah, at the end of the day, it's just trying to help them. What do you need? Is there anything else that I can offer, in terms of information and details up front, sometimes what is also helpful is including, you know, your contact information, letting them know that I am available.

00:19:37:08 - 00:19:47:05

Vannyda

You can give me a call if you need more information, things like that. So just trying to make it very easy on them for them to do their job.

00:19:47:08 - 00:20:08:01

Jason

Yeah. That's very, interesting you say that. So, what I want to talk about the 7 to 10 sentences for a minute. And past episodes I've shared with our my audience, our audience here that when you're cold pitching, meaning you're not responding to a media request or a media query, but when you're cold pitching, I highly recommend three sentence pitches.

00:20:08:01 - 00:20:27:00

Jason

Right. What do you got? Why it matters. And what do you want them to do with it right now? Sometimes you have to start out with three paragraphs. Same formula, but it's three paragraphs, right? What do you got? What do you are? Why does it matter? What do you want them to do with it? And that's my favorite kind of pitch.

00:20:27:00 - 00:20:45:03

Jason

When you're cold pitching somebody, meaning they're not asking for you to contact them. Right? But you've got a story you want to share with them. And some people tell me I can't get it down to three paragraphs, my client or topics too complicated. I'm like, well, that just means you're not very good at editing or self editing. But then when I say make it three sentences, you know they about flake out.

00:20:45:08 - 00:21:05:20

Jason

But my example is it's like an anchor doing a reader for television or for radio or whatever it is you might be listening to, where they're just quickly giving you a headline, telling you what happened and moving on to the next story, what you hear, like during a maybe a rush hour drive or the, you know, early evening news.

00:21:05:20 - 00:21:22:24

Jason

They're just they're knocking out a bunch of stories back to back real quick, you know, kind of thing. And what they call in the business, a reader. And I feel like I'm good media pitch is a reader when you're just simply trying to get their attention, because then they can say, you know what, I am interested. Tell me more what I see a lot of PR people do.

00:21:22:24 - 00:21:40:21

Jason

And by the way, I use analogies and illustration all the time of how, you know, I didn't know a thing about sales until I started my own PR firm. And you had to learn how to like, do proposals and follow up with people and all that. But the more sales training I went to, it actually taught me how to be better at building relationships and doing media relations.

00:21:40:21 - 00:22:04:21

Jason

Right? Because at the end of the day, you're trying to come to them and a good, good salesperson is not selling you a good person. A salesperson is informing you and helping you make a decision. Right. And media relations, we're helping them find good news stories and be able to take advantage of them. So the worst salespeople and I and I post about this on LinkedIn, once I had a sales guy say, hey, I hear you're interested in our services.

00:22:04:27 - 00:22:31:03

Jason

Here's our 165 page PDF catalog. Let me know if I can be helpful. Right? That's not at all what I wanted, right? I wanted a consultative of, you know, expert guide to help me find the right solution because I was a fish out of water in this case, right. Similarly, I've seen PR people just drop, you know, here's ten images, our media kit, our bios, our annual report, our company history, and a really, really long media pitch.

00:22:31:08 - 00:22:47:08

Jason

And I think they think, okay, I just gave them everything they need. Now they can go off and write the story. I'm done. They don't do anything for me. You know, everybody's happy and I'm just face palming. Like, that's the worst thing you could have done. Just now, right? What could have happened instead is you could have taken the opportunity to build a relationship.

00:22:47:08 - 00:23:06:17

Jason

You. A pitch is nothing more than a tease, right? That's my opinion. Now what? I want to circle back to. All that said, I just shared a lot, right? Is you said 7 to 10 sentences and that gave me pause. Because when I have a media query come, our media requests come my way that I feel qualified to respond to.

00:23:06:19 - 00:23:30:20

Jason

I'm actually trying to answer all of their questions, right? And they're typically asking 3 to 5 questions, and I'm responding in soundbites or what I would say if I was being interviewed by them. But as I reflect back and I'm willing to be critical and vulnerable with you, I'm certainly responding with more than 7 to 10 sentences because I'm saying hello, thanking them for the opportunity.

00:23:30:23 - 00:23:52:01

Jason

I'm then addressing their 3 to 5 questions in in paragraph format sometimes, and, bullet points that are quotable. Then I'm wrapping up at the end and saying, you know, basically one I always ask for a backlink. And then I usually do a bullet point or two of, like, here's a suggested backlink, and the keyword you could use.

00:23:52:04 - 00:24:12:02

Jason

And then I also have a and this is probably too much now that I say it out loud, but I have a thing where I explain how backlinks are going to benefit their article and outlet, how it's going to benefit their audience, and how it ultimately helps. Also, you know, my small business and then I just in saying, hey, if you need anything else or I can connect you to anybody else in my network, I'd be happy to do that.

00:24:12:02 - 00:24:32:09

Jason

Right? So as I say this out loud, way more than 7 to 10 sentences, but my experience says that my close rate on those interviews is much higher because the difference between the cold pitch is they don't know me, they haven't asked for anything for me. So I'm just trying to whet their appetite, tease them with something and wait to hear back if they even want to have a conversation about it.

00:24:32:16 - 00:24:43:00

Jason

Whereas with a media request like your your service provides, you know, they want to talk to somebody, you know they're interested. So should I pivot my response?

00:24:43:03 - 00:25:03:01

Vannyda

I wouldn't say the pivot. I think it would vary just based on what they're asking for. Right. I think this is generally what we see when maybe they don't have the questions listed in their request yet, and they just want to hear from, you know, they want a bio or a summary of who do you have, that you're representing.

00:25:03:01 - 00:25:23:22

Vannyda

That could be a good fit. And then they, you know, take it off into an interview. I do meaning whatever it is. And so, I wouldn't say that pivot. Jason, I think that's great that, you know, you it sounds like your pitch is clean. Bullet points are things that we would also advise to help make your pitch clean.

00:25:23:24 - 00:25:49:13

Vannyda

So it just really depends. But I would say just throwing paragraphs or like tons of paragraphs like three that that's kind of maybe overdoing it. But as long as you are offering up saying, here's my client, here's why I think they are a good fit. If you if it might be a couple questions, you can, you know, get some quotes from your, your client as well.

00:25:49:15 - 00:26:08:28

Vannyda

And then I think that's great that you include at the bottom. Like yeah. Do you need anything else? And and yeah asking for a backlink. You know, not all reporters will include backlinks, just based on some of the things, I think on the editorial side of it's.

00:26:08:28 - 00:26:10:11

Jason

Policy sometimes that you're not.

00:26:10:11 - 00:26:15:10

Vannyda

Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it doesn't hurt to ask.

00:26:15:12 - 00:26:16:01

Jason

Exactly.

00:26:16:06 - 00:26:25:07

Vannyda

But yeah, it all really just varies. But this is just more generally, what we have seen, in terms of like getting a higher response.

00:26:25:07 - 00:26:34:16

Jason

This episode is brought to you by audible. Enjoy 30 days free of Audible Premium Plus by going to on top of Pre-comp audible.

00:26:34:16 - 00:26:59:03

Announcer

You're listening to on top of PR with your host, Jason Mudd. Jason is a trusted advisor to some of America's most admired and fastest growing brands. He is the managing partner at Axia Public Relations, a PR agency that guides news, social and web strategies for national companies. And now, back to the show.

00:26:59:03 - 00:27:13:13

Jason

So a couple things that I’ll share with our audience here is one, I always say when you're in an environment like this, right. It's a competitive environment. And so they're asking for sources and they're looking for the best source they can find. And in order to be the best source, you have to say something different than what everybody else is saying.

00:27:13:13 - 00:27:37:08

Jason

So if they're doing a story and they want to interview, you know, engineers about a big project or something like that, and they interview 3 to 5 engineers or 3 to 5 engineers respond to the query. If all 3 to 5 say the exact same thing, they're looking to quote about three, good journalism. When I went to journalism school, was you always have at least three unique sources in a story.

00:27:37:11 - 00:28:01:15

Jason

And by unique, I mean they're not all from the same company. Right. And they help bring different value. And, and, and experience and insights. But if all 3 to 5 of these engineers said the same exact thing, then it's like a crapshoot or a luck of the draw. All of which one actually gets quoted. So we advise companies and clients to always try to say something provocative, contrarian and unique from what they think.

00:28:01:15 - 00:28:25:01

Jason

Everybody else in the marketplace is saying. And if you do that and everybody else sounds the same, the odds are in your favor that you're going to actually get quoted in that story as opposed to, let's say they want three sources. Five people responded. Two of those people aren't going to make the cut. I'd rather you be one of those people that make the cut because you took a risk and said something a little bit different than everybody else says.

00:28:25:04 - 00:28:28:02

Jason

Any feedback or corrections on that?

00:28:28:04 - 00:28:59:18

Vannyda

No. I mean, they're always reporters are always looking for diverse, voices too. Right. And so, you want to be unique, you want to kind of take your own. Well, yeah. Have your own take on what you are saying about the topic, that, you know, you don't want to be a copy and paste of what you're sharing with a lot of other reporters, too, because that is also, affecting the likelihood of you getting quoted, within a piece.

00:28:59:18 - 00:29:31:25

Vannyda

So, yeah, I totally agree with that. And another thing too, that you just mentioned that just popping up in my mind, Jason, is if multiple sources are sharing the exact same type of response that just reminds me of do not use AI in your pitch as well. That is one of the things that will get you the similar response, as do other people who are trying to compete, to get into that piece.

00:29:31:25 - 00:29:42:10

Vannyda

So, if I can share anything about, you know, what is going on in the world right now with, I, don't use AI and don't be scammy. And your pitch to you.

00:29:42:13 - 00:29:58:22

Jason

Right? For sure. Yeah. You want to help? You don't want to sell, right? You want to help them. You don't want to sell them. That's because the. And we'll put a link to this in the episode notes. But we've got content that basically just says the best media pitch is one that's already done for them. Meaning here are three sources you can talk to.

00:29:58:26 - 00:30:25:19

Jason

Here's photography, here's background. You know, you're just hand delivering them a story that makes it very easy for them to say yes. And so speaking of making it easy for them to say yes, one of my pieces of advice, vanilla is to always be, well, when you respond to queries, save your responses for future use. Meaning that you may not get the exact same question, but you might be asked a similar question that you could easily pivot or revise.

00:30:25:19 - 00:30:41:11

Jason

You know, your past content so that you can respond. And this is where I was going with this. The important part respond early, right? The quicker you respond, even if it's well before the deadline, the you know, people tend to remember the first and the last interaction they had. So they're going to remember the first response and the last response.

00:30:41:16 - 00:30:44:01

Jason

And then the stuff in the middle starts to get a little gray to them.

00:30:44:01 - 00:31:02:21

Jason

00:31:02:23 - 00:31:23:20

Vannyda

00:31:23:22 - 00:31:42:17

Jason

Yeah, I agree with that. I've seen a lot of times, on your service and others where, you know, the deadline might be Friday, but come Wednesday, they're like, got all the responses I need. And that's a shame because, you know, you might have been working on something great. And so I advise our audience and my team to always pad deadlines.

00:31:42:17 - 00:32:02:21

Jason

So if you're telling a client or your, leadership team or whatever, if the deadline is Friday, I would tell them it's Wednesday, you know, so that they're getting it to you early and you have some padding. The one pet peeve I've seen happen where this goes really bad of Anita is they. The deadline is Tuesday at five and Tuesday at 448.

00:32:02:21 - 00:32:23:00

Jason

They send it to our agency and they think it's fine, right. And we're like, okay, so we have now have two minutes to take this, you know, proofread it, improve it, submit it. We're going to miss the deadline. Right. And so you've always got to pad your own deadline. So in order for me what you should say is in order for me to meet the 5:00 deadline, I need to get this from you by 330.

00:32:23:00 - 00:32:40:05

Jason

Right. And even then, I would still say 330 Wednesday for the deadline. That's Friday at five. But that's the one thing you got to emphasize to the, to the expert. Right, is someone else can jump in and get this done, you know, before you. So the sooner you can respond, the better.

00:32:40:07 - 00:32:56:13

Vannyda

Yeah. For sure. And as I'm working with reporters every day to I'm asking about wiggle room and giving them padding. So whenever they are sharing requests, you know, they are building that time out to when they need to secure the source, when they're going to start writing about the piece.

00:32:56:16 - 00:33:19:11

Jason

Oh, good. Yeah. Good, good, good. So you've mentioned a couple of times, like not using reusing the same pitch. And that makes me want to ask you about a, a quasi new feature that you guys have called amplify this pitch. I don't know how that works. I know it's I think it's checked by default whenever you submit a response.

00:33:19:13 - 00:33:37:22

Jason

And so my question to you is ultimately this one, I want you to tell us what it is. My question is, though, you know, does that mean that we're kind of taking the same pitch and we're letting other reporter see it? You know, in, in the ecosystem of quoted and is that a well-liked feature among your reporters?

00:33:37:22 - 00:33:42:16

Jason

Because I would imagine if they're thoughtful enough to ask questions, they don't want everybody to see responses.

00:33:42:18 - 00:34:22:04

Vannyda

Right. In a sense, yes. So when you are pitching, that amplifier pitch button that will. Yes, be fed into a feed for journalists on the platform. And what that does is, whenever, let's say they are looking for a specific story idea, they can search for a certain topic, and then your pitch is summarized for them to see that you have talked about this topic before, and if they are interested in, you know, that topic, then they can reach out to you noting like, hi Jason, I noticed that your client talked about XYZ before.

00:34:22:06 - 00:34:27:29

Vannyda

Can you share insights with me about this story that I'm working on that's related to this as well?

00:34:28:02 - 00:34:49:15

Jason

Nice, nice. Yeah, I'm just looking at my notes here. I want to make sure I said this. If I didn't say it already, I think I did, which is I love it and recommend that you save your responses to media requests in some sort of repository so you have easy access to it. And so you're not going to your busy executive to ask them, you know, three questions they've already answered before.

00:34:49:15 - 00:35:19:01

Jason

Among the five that the journalist might have answered, my recommendation as a good PR practitioner and a good advisor to your client is not only bring them the questions that you saw from the quoted or other media query, right, but then also suggest answers based on past content that you've compiled from this executive, whether it's from a speech, a meeting, an article they've written, just notes that you've taken from interviewing them internally, other responses they've given to, you know, your service and other ones in the past.

00:35:19:04 - 00:35:39:19

Jason

Basically, if you're a good PR person, your job is to make everybody else's job easier, right? Make the reporter's job easier. Make your expert's job easier and collect this information. And then when you show your expert, hey, here's the five questions they asked. Your five answers that I put together based on things you've said in the past, or how I think you might answer it.

00:35:39:21 - 00:35:59:07

Jason

For me, as an executive, that's going to take a lot less of my time to either, tweak that and put it in my own language or my own style. Or I can start from scratch if I want to, but at least I got a head start, and at least I got something to prompt me as opposed to starting from scratch.

00:35:59:10 - 00:36:08:23

Vannyda

Yeah, for sure. And we have that option in, code as well where you can save it. So that should be helpful when you're pitching.

00:36:08:26 - 00:36:34:24

Jason

Yeah. And then the other thing I really like about your platform is the ability to have DMs or direct messages with, reporters because, you know, there's been several times I've been responding to a, a query or request from a journalist. I've answered it, they've used that story, and then they come back to me in my messages or my DM and say, hey, I really enjoyed what you had to say about, you know, one of them was, you know, Elon Musk and what his PR people should do.

00:36:34:24 - 00:36:53:20

Jason

Or, you know what? How Tesla should respond to his, you know, erratic or renegade type behavior. And they said, I'd like to interview again about this other story that I have. Right. And so that's really helpful because, you know, at the end of the day, your platform is very helpful for journalists. But sometimes I think they might feel like they get overwhelmed with responses.

00:36:53:20 - 00:37:15:00

Jason

And so they collect, like to your point, they built a relationship through your platform with somebody. And so they come right back to that trusted expert that they know will give a good and timely response that hopefully is provocative, contrarian, unique point of view. Right. And it also saves them a lot of time. Do you see a lot of that interaction type, happening on the platform?

00:37:15:02 - 00:37:42:18

Vannyda

Yeah, yeah, we do. And I would say to, you know, you may not get a response from a reporter that you pitched, you know, but that I would say, don't let that discourage you because they will go back to some of their old pitches and see that you are a fit for something that they are working on now, and that's when you will get that DM.

00:37:42:18 - 00:37:51:01

Vannyda

They will reach out to you asking for that help. So yeah, that's the beauty of building relationships within the platform as well.

00:37:51:04 - 00:38:10:07

Jason

Yeah. You're making me think of a saying, I like to use that. The first 50 rejections are the hardest, right? So after you get ghosted or rejected 50 times, you kind of just get used to it and you're not bothered by it. And I think as soon as you're not bothered by being rejected, you're willing to take bigger risk and you're willing to try new things.

00:38:10:09 - 00:38:26:25

Jason

The other thing I you're making me think about, too, is what we talk about inbox optimization, meaning that, you know, you might pitch a journalist, you know, on a topic, and they're just never interested. They don't respond. But then one day when they need somebody, they're gonna be like, who is that Jason Mudd guy that kept sending me something?

00:38:27:01 - 00:38:41:21

Jason

And they might not remember the name Jason Mudd, but they will go in to their inbox and they'll do a search like they would on Google and try to find you. And the best thing is, when you come up there, right, there's that person that, you know, used to pitch me all the time or pitches me occasionally. I've never met them.

00:38:41:21 - 00:38:58:10

Jason

I don't you I've never used them before, but now I need them. And so, you know, and we've I mean, I've owned this agency for 20 plus years. And I can tell you several times where a reporter has come back to us a year or two, three, four years later. So, hey, you guys used to pitch me on this.

00:38:58:10 - 00:39:15:08

Jason

I wasn't interested, but today I am. Can you help me? And nine times out of ten, we can help them because we either still have the same client, we have another client like them, or we're willing to go and reconnect with that client and say, hey, remember that time we pitched CNBC and that never happened? Well, they're ready today if you are.

00:39:15:09 - 00:39:40:03

Jason

You know, and that's just how it works. And a great quote that I think is worth reminding our audience of is that you know, the media doesn't care what you want them to write about, what your CEO wants written about what your investors want written about, what your boss wants written about, right? Or your client wants written about what they want are news stories that impact and are interesting to their audience.

00:39:40:03 - 00:40:01:21

Jason

So even journalists don't get to write about what they want to write about. Right? They've got an editor telling them what to write about based on news, judgment and news factors, and they're being assigned to those stories. And, so, you know, you can trust me. Journalists want to be pitched because they want story ideas. So they look good to their editors is if they're bringing something fresh and new.

00:40:01:23 - 00:40:10:27

Vannyda

Yeah. And they're searching their inbox, too. And that's why you are getting those responses months later, right, of when they actually need some help around a topic.

00:40:11:00 - 00:40:39:05

Jason

Yeah, exactly. All right. So, let's talk about focusing on being helpful to reporters. And don't ghost them even if your, your expert, you know, backs out at the last minute or, even, ghost you, I wrote a LinkedIn post. No, a blog post about this recently. Because a journalist went on, LinkedIn to complain about being ghosted and, you know, upset at the PR person.

00:40:39:07 - 00:40:54:00

Jason

And, you know, a lot of people came to the defense of the PR person and said, well, I'm sure the PR person isn't the one who actually ghosted you, right? It was probably the person that they were working on behalf of that, you know, backed out at the last minute and made them look bad because I don't know any PR people.

00:40:54:00 - 00:41:15:03

Jason

They're like, you know what? No, I decided, I don't want to help, you know, my executive or my expert get media coverage. So, when when you find out that your, client backs out of the last minute, do you have any dialed in tips or recommendations or what's the feedback you hear from journalists about this?

00:41:15:06 - 00:41:38:29

Vannyda

Yeah. I know that there are frustrations sometimes around when, source starts out right. And that is that feeds into the reporter having to work on a tight deadline. And, some of the feedback is that now they are rush to get someone, even more last minute. Right. Which is what our team, helps with, too.

00:41:39:01 - 00:41:40:07

Jason

Thanks.

00:41:40:09 - 00:42:10:18

Vannyda

But I would say, you know, it happens, and your your expert, your client isn't always going to be available. But whenever that does happen, I would just recommend that you are communicative around that. Let them know. And, still try to be helpful if you have another client who might be available or offer up saying that you know they can't make it today, but how about tomorrow at a certain time, right?

00:42:10:21 - 00:42:34:22

Vannyda

Just trying to work with them through it. That's what I would recommend doing. But yeah, it's, I totally get it. It's a two way street, and, it's just like in real life, right? You get ghosted and, it's it's not fun. And, it's not the best case scenario, but just still trying to be helpful in that way would be, okay.

00:42:34:24 - 00:42:38:20

Vannyda

The most ideal for the reporter to hear back about.

00:42:38:22 - 00:42:54:22

Jason

Yeah. We talk internally at our agency. Right. If you don't think you're going to be able to make a deadline, you need to start talking about that early and often. Right? Don't wait till the day of or the hour before, start talking about the week of or the week before. Right. And just kind of. And then then there's time to get help.

00:42:54:22 - 00:43:14:17

Jason

Right. And so in the case with the journalist, if you know, your source is going to be a no show or starting to be tentative, give the journalist more notice, right? Because that's the best thing you can do than leaving them hanging. Because if they're planning on interviewing your client at 130, they probably have to start writing by 330 and have something submitted.

00:43:14:17 - 00:43:35:03

Jason

I'm just going to make up, you know, each outlet is different, but they may have to have something done by 4 or 5. And if you're backing out, you know, at 130, they've got to scramble, and find somebody else. So, you know, we've all been, you know, if you've been in PR for long enough, you've had a source who was backed out or a source that gets cold feet at the last minute.

00:43:35:05 - 00:43:56:10

Jason

I've had to pull, executives into another room and tell them to get their stuff together. This interview's happening. You know, the journalist is here and ready with a camera. You asked for this. You wanted this. Let's do this. You know, and the best thing you can do is prepare them right. Have, set aside a little bit of time to prepare them for each and every media opportunity.

00:43:56:15 - 00:44:14:10

Jason

So it's not a last minute. Oh, I forgot that's today or I don't want to do that anymore because it's either anxiety or busyness or just some emergency came up. And when those emergencies come up, that's when you can pivot and say, hey, my, my source isn't available, but I, I've reached out to these two people, or I can help you.

00:44:14:10 - 00:44:17:22

Jason

I'm working to find somebody for you right now. You know, those kind of things. Yeah.

00:44:18:19 - 00:44:22:17

Jason

Any other tips on this topic? Anita?

00:44:22:20 - 00:44:35:09

Vannyda

No, I would just say just being communicative as as early as possible. When whenever you are, you know, getting a sense that, yeah, you're probably not going to be able to make a deadline for them.

00:44:35:11 - 00:44:54:07

Jason

Right? Totally agree. Totally agree. So I know we want to talk about quote, it makes it easy to increase your visibility and target specific outlets. You want to get coverage. I feel like we've done a lot of that throughout this conversation. Is there anything more specific you want to insert?

00:44:54:09 - 00:45:45:19

Vannyda

No, I don't think so. Building out your profile completely, making sure that you have the right tags so that you get alerted of the right opportunities. I would also say, I guess this isn't exactly related to visibility. But in terms of trying to, get to the target publications that you are focusing on, keep an eye on what's coming in, whether that's, you know, having, quote it open and refreshing the opportunities for, there are a ton of reporters in here every day who are looking for help with publications like CNBC, BuzzFeed, CNN, Bloomberg, Reuters, Reader's Digest, you name it, all the top tiers.

00:45:45:21 - 00:46:30:18

Vannyda

And so I would also suggest, you know, to add and encourage, everyone to take a look around because, and explore the platform because that's how, you'll learn it and kind of, you know, understand what reporters are looking for on a day to day, and the topics that they're writing about, too, because maybe your client is, super focused on one topic, but you are noticing that reporters are talking about a different topic in that industry that helps you get back to your client to be like, I think we should be talking about equity right now, because this is what a lot of reporters are talking about as well.

00:46:30:18 - 00:46:38:24

Vannyda

So, yeah, keep an eye out on on what you see on quoted and, build out your profile as much as possible.

00:46:38:27 - 00:46:54:23

Jason

So have a complete profile, look for trends and, and, and news stories that you can either news jack or tie your expert into and, and then just be a good person and building a relationship and always be looking to be helpful.

00:46:54:26 - 00:46:55:15

Vannyda

Yeah.

00:46:55:17 - 00:47:22:21

Jason

Yeah. Love it. All right. Well, hey, Vernita. We enjoyed, you being here. If somebody wants to connect directly with you, they can find you on LinkedIn. And, we just appreciate your role in helping to one make journalism better. Because journalists need all the support that we can give them right now. And to, making that, experience and those media relationships even stronger by providing a, service that makes those important connections.

00:47:22:23 - 00:47:25:12

Vannyda

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for having me.

00:47:25:14 - 00:47:43:02

Jason

Yeah, it was a pleasure. I really enjoyed getting to know you better and sharing, some of your insights with our audience. So with that, that's been another episode of On Top of PR. If you found this topic helpful today, I hope you'll share it with a peer or colleague who would benefit from, hearing it and learning more about how to do media relations.

00:47:43:02 - 00:47:49:20

Jason

Even better. We appreciate your loyalty and tuning in to on top of PR if you have any other topics you'd like to hear from us, let us know on social media and we’ll look forward to our next episodes coming up soon. Be well.

00:47:49:20 - 00:48:45:11

Announcer

This has been On Top of PR with Jason Mudd presented by ReviewMaxer. Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss an episode and check out past shows at ontopofpr.com.

About your host Jason Mudd

On Top of PR host, Jason Mudd, is a trusted adviser and dynamic strategist for some of America’s most admired brands and fastest-growing companies. Since 1994, he’s worked with American Airlines, Budweiser, Dave & Buster’s, H&R Block, Hilton, HP, Miller Lite, New York Life, Pizza Hut, Southern Comfort, and Verizon. He founded Axia Public Relations in July 2002. Forbes named Axia as one of America’s Best PR Agencies.

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